[Vision2020] The Same Old Story (was Persecution By Any OtherName)
joekc at adelphia.net
joekc at adelphia.net
Thu Apr 27 12:08:01 PDT 2006
Gabe,
I did reply to this. In "Ament & NSA," I wrote
> There is no defense for calling
> another person an "android."
I also wrote:
> Aaron made all his comments
> before the election. But we
> elected him anyway.
AND:
> The only reason NSA got to the
> CUP stage in the first place is that
> a decision was made at the last meeting
> of the old council instead of at the first
> meeting of the new council.
> Ament has already missed out on one
> opportunity regarding the CUP.
> If he misses out on two, you try to
> convince me that something
> hasn't gone terribly wrong.
I said other things, as well.
I will add that your suggestion, and Donovan’s
suggestion that Ament is a bigot is insulting,
not just to Ament but to minorities who actually
suffer through genuine bigotry.
What class of folks were Ament’s comments directed?
Christians? No. He was talking about one specific
organization. Of course, it is your organization.
Nonetheless, the comments are best understood as
a criticism, not bigotry.
Doug Wilson made a crack in his blog recently,
about Intoleristas spying on his property. Being
an Intolerista myself, I find that comment to be
very insulting, perhaps libelous. But I don’t see
any bigotry in that comment either.
Better if both sides treated each other with
the respect that human beings deserve.
Best, Joe
---- Gabriel Rench <k5grench at hotmail.com> wrote:
=============
Keely,
Sorry about the mis-read of your email. On another note: in several emails
that I have posted on the Viz I have mentioned that I am NOT a graduate of
NSA, I am a graduate of U of I. This probably attributes to my poor reading
skills and for Joan's sake, poor spelling skills.
Back to our topic:
The comical hypocrisy in all this, is that Ament has discriminately used
hate speech against NSA and ya'll are at his defense asserting that he
should not have to step down from decisions regarding NSA. Again what if
Ament said the same thing about homosexuals, blacks... before he was in
office or after, it does not matter. Joe why have remained silent about
this...follow the logic. Ament has demonstrated that he cannot judge
objectively about issues regarding NSA. IF Ament had said the same thing
about blacks, homosexuals...ya'll would be requesting his resignation from
City Council.
Go Vandals!
Gabe
-----Original Message-----
From: keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 2:21 PM
To: k5grench at hotmail.com; joekc at adelphia.net; jampot at adelphia.net
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] The Same Old Story (was Persecution By Any
OtherName)
Good Lord, Gabe -- I made it as clear as I could that I wasn't using the
"born that way" argument and neither should you. People make choices about
who to align themselves with, and they do so in complete volition. Please
re-read my post, because your response doesn't represent the intellect I
know you must have, nor the teaching you surely have received at NSA.
keely
From: "Gabriel Rench" <k5grench at hotmail.com>
To: "'keely emerinemix'" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>, <joekc at adelphia.net>,
<jampot at adelphia.net>
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] The Same Old Story (was Persecution By Any
OtherName)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:26:35 -0700
Keely,
I really don’t know how to simplify this argument anymore than it already
is. Simply disregarding this as a being "born that way" distinction in no
way deals with the argument. I am talking about groups of people...lets try
this again: NSA students are androids...homosexuals are
homodroids...liberals are fundroids...philosophers are cookydroids...
Tomsee can probably fill in the rest.
U of I graduate!
Gabedroid
-----Original Message-----
From: keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:49 AM
To: k5grench at hotmail.com; joekc at adelphia.net; jampot at adelphia.net
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] The Same Old Story (was Persecution By Any
OtherName)
Your classes in logic and rhetoric seem to have skipped the part about
cohesiveness of argument and consistency of reason, Gabe.
People align themselves with Christ Church and NSA willingly, choosing to
embrace various doctrines and beliefs and eagerly immersing themselves, as
is their right, in a particular culture that has as its only defining
characteristic adherence to those same beliefs and acquiescence to policies
springing from them. Again, this is well within their rights; it is equally
within Aaron's rights to disagree publicly and vehemently with those beliefs
and practices.
This is not, as you might presume, an argument about being "born that way."
That's not relevant. What is relevant is that no one is Black, Jewish, or
homosexual because of an institution or fellowship they've chosen to align
themselves with. I shudder to think that you might be arguing that one's
status as a student at NSA is somehow an identifier of their personhood in
the same way sexuality, race, or religion is. I mean, it's a neat school
and all, but not even the sweater vests and khakis and black disputatio
robes are inherent to the wearer's personhood, dapper as they may be.
keely
From: "Gabriel Rench" <k5grench at hotmail.com>
To: <joekc at adelphia.net>, "'g. crabtree'" <jampot at adelphia.net>
CC: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] The Same Old Story (was Persecution By Any
OtherName)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:40:47 -0700
Joe,
What if Ament expressed the same criticisms about blacks, homosexuals,or
jews?....Jews are jewdroids...homosexuals are homodroids...blacks are
bladroids... Would you want Aments biased subjectivity participate in the
same sort of decisions? Cheers! Gabe
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of joekc at adelphia.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:29 AM
To: g. crabtree
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: [Vision2020] The Same Old Story (was Persecution By Any Other Name)
Is every statement that you and your friends disagree with "irrational"? Is
this an illustration of your level of tolerance, Gary?
Ament voiced his criticisms on this topic prior to the election and, if my
memory serves me well, he gained more votes than ANY other candidate in the
process. Let's stand by the will of the people -- who voted for Ament in
part because of his well-known views on this subject -- whether or not we
agree with their opinions. This is how a democracy functions. Not by trying
to silence critics by any means necessary.
--
Joe Campbell
---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
=============
I'm not sure what Doug you are referring to in your post but, when it come
to irrational quotes, let's start with his proclaiming NSA as an "education
free zone." I don't care how rabidly partisan you are on this topic, you
simply can not say that the students at Moscow's finest downtown collage are
not learning anything. If nothing else they're learning that the fair
minded, tolerant, liberal elite in our town, really aren't. (and to be sure
they are learning quite a bit more then that)
gc
----- Original Message -----
From: <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Tom Hansen"
<thansen at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Persecution By Any Other Name
This is just plain false. There is nothing in Doug's quotations of Ament to
support this. What is irrational about Ament's comments?
This is all just another example of some folks trying to get things done
through something other than the regular channels, a way of doing things
that got folks like Ament worked up in the first place.
--
Joe Campbell
---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
=============
When you have a city council member make as many disparaging remarks about
NSA as citizen Ament has I think that you can safely take the matter out of
the realm of "paranoia" and move it firmly into the real, live problem
column. Getting ones ducks in a row before the council hears the CUP appeal
seems prudent. Ament clearly has an irrational dislike for "androids."
gc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
To: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] Persecution By Any Other Name
> Greetings Visionaires -
>
> It seems that NSA attorney Gregory Dickison has requested public records
> concerning virtually ANYBODY's comments to Councilperson Aaron Ament
about
> almost anything.
>
> Details concerning this public records request were aired on KRFP this
> morning.
>
> For your listening pleasure:
>
> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Sounds/Dickison_RecReq.mp3
>
> Footnote to NSA "management": Paranoia self-destroya
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Just Another Intolerista Liberal Elitista Diversity-Cleansing Wack
Nutjob
> Loose on the Palouse Doing What Comes Natural
>
>
> *************************************************
>
> "When people sin, everybody has to pay."
>
> - Douglas Wilson of Wilson, Inc. (dba Christ Church) (June 7, 2002)
>
> For more details: http://www.NotOnThePalouse.com
>
> *************************************************
>
>
>
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