[Vision2020] Water: willing to conserve but can't afford to

Tue Apr 25 20:57:33 PDT 2006

Some of us take showers, wash our clothes, dishes, and even drink the  water even thought we don't live in a house. I even have neighbors with  mini lawns, gardens and flower pots. A teenage girl can take up to  three showers a day. Once in the morning. Another after her workout,  and one before she heads out for the night. 

  My apartment has a running toilet. I bet that ads up too, along with 1000s of other toilets in the city. 

  I say before we do something drastic and costly, we do the little cost effective things first. 

  _DJA

J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com> wrote:  In an apartment, what the heck do you spend water on?  You don't have grass 
to water, you don't have flower beds, you don't have access to the hose for 
to wash cars with...etc.  Just what do you have to waste water on?  I think 
the brick in the toilet is a good thing, but other than that - what?

Most home owners are told to reduce water useage and are fined if they are 
caught watering off hours - what happens to "water-abusing apartment 
dwellers?" (Does such even exist?)

Just asking, so don't go "Rambo" on me or anything.  I am just asking, ok?

J  :]

>From: Donovan Arnold 
>To: Bruce and Jean Livingston ,        Nils 
>Peterson , vision2020 at moscow.com,        Mark 
>Solomon 
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water: willing to conserve but can't afford to
>Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:20:25 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Most apartments in Moscow have the water included in the rent. If land  
>owners offered reduced rents and made the tenants pay for water, it  would 
>probably be reduce consumption.
>
>   There is no financial incentive for most the people in Moscow to 
>conserve water.
>
>   If you cut rent if I used less water, I and other apartment dwellers  
>would probably devise ways to reduce water consumption like we do with  
>utility costs.
>
>   This would save at least 1-5% on water use.
>
>   Just a thought.
>
>   _DJA
>
>Bruce and Jean Livingston  wrote:  What is the 
>estimated payback time for water cost savings to make up the
>cost of  a new low flow toilet?  Explain any assumptions necessary to the
>explanation/answer.
>
>Bruce Livingston
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Solomon"
>To: "Nils Peterson" ;
>Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water: willing to conserve but can't afford to
>
>
> > It's not older homes that are at issue as much as some of the first 
>models
> > of low flush toilets just weren't designed well enough. I just installed
> > one in our house in town (very much an older house with known roots in 
>the
> > pipes issues) and it works great. Has a half flush option at 0.8
> > gallons/use. See a similar model at the Natural Abode in beautiful and
> > vibrant downtown Moscow.
> >
> > m.
> >
> > At 2:58 PM -0700 4/25/06, Nils Peterson wrote:
> >>Tom Ivey illustrates at least one type of person who would occupy the
> >>middle
> >>position in my "Where do you stand" thread: willing, but unable.
> >>
> >>Thanks for the lawn-related suggestions. They sound cost effective.
> >>
> >>The toilet upgrade plan discussed earlier, if funded by new water users 
>as
> >>I
> >>offered, might work for Ivey. He would get a new throne and the feel 
>good
> >>from saving water, with no cash outlay.
> >>
> >>My wife points out that she has heard there is an issue for some older
> >>homes
> >>whose plumbing does not work well with low flow... We are guessing that
> >>things just don't move along well with less water.
> >>
> >>So, the City's program would need a means to evaluate a home for being a
> >>candidate to participate. Not much different than the phone company
> >>investigating if you can have DSL.
> >>
> >>So, what we have here is a voluntary program that saves water, at no 
>cost
> >>to
> >>the would-be saver, and transfers the savings of water to a would-be new
> >>water user when they get a building permit.
> >>
> >>What is missing to put this into action?
> >>1. Deciding to adopt and become strict about adhering to the PBAC water
> >>budget.
> >>2. Building the mechanism to swap the toilets (or other conservation
> >>measures)
> >>3. Securing funding for #2.
> >>
> >>Anything missing?
> >>Does this list have the political will to support this idea?
> >>How would you go about selling it (or defeating it)?
> >>
> >>
> >>On 4/25/06 10:06 AM, "vision2020-request at moscow.com"
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>  In regards to the last issue "where do you stand":  I want to 
>conserve.
> >>> But
> >>>  it costs me more to conserve than I can afford.  The cheapest rain
> >>> barrel I
> >>>  can find is $100 plus shipping, I need at least 4 of them. I don't 
>have
> >>> the
> >>>  money to purchase a new front load washer and would have a hard time
> >>>  justifying it without an old broken one.  I can't afford to put in a
> >>> sprinkler
> >>>  system (I would love to have one).  Sure, I got a 3% increase in pay
> >>> this
> >>>  year, but my groceries, gasoline, clothing, health care insurance, 
>and
> >>>  basically all consumables have increased this year by more than 3%.  
>I
> >>> pay
> >>>  twice as much for water as my counter parts in southern Idaho.  And I
> >>> just
> >>>  found out I will have to pay out $4000 on braces for a child. What do
> >>> you do?
> >>>  Where do you start?  I have low flush toilets and a water saver 
>shower
> >>> head
> >>>  (you can get that shower head free from the city!).  What else can I
> >>> do?
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
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>
>
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