[Vision2020] Water: willing to conserve but can't afford to

Bruce and Jean Livingston jeanlivingston at turbonet.com
Tue Apr 25 16:55:07 PDT 2006

What is the estimated payback time for water cost savings to make up the 
cost of  a new low flow toilet?  Explain any assumptions necessary to the 

Bruce Livingston

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Solomon" <msolomon at moscow.com>
To: "Nils Peterson" <nils_peterson at wsu.edu>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water: willing to conserve but can't afford to

> It's not older homes that are at issue as much as some of the first models 
> of low flush toilets just weren't designed well enough. I just installed 
> one in our house in town (very much an older house with known roots in the 
> pipes issues) and it works great. Has a half flush option at 0.8 
> gallons/use. See a similar model at the Natural Abode in beautiful and 
> vibrant downtown Moscow.
> m.
> At 2:58 PM -0700 4/25/06, Nils Peterson wrote:
>>Tom Ivey illustrates at least one type of person who would occupy the 
>>position in my "Where do you stand" thread: willing, but unable.
>>Thanks for the lawn-related suggestions. They sound cost effective.
>>The toilet upgrade plan discussed earlier, if funded by new water users as 
>>offered, might work for Ivey. He would get a new throne and the feel good
>>from saving water, with no cash outlay.
>>My wife points out that she has heard there is an issue for some older 
>>whose plumbing does not work well with low flow... We are guessing that
>>things just don't move along well with less water.
>>So, the City's program would need a means to evaluate a home for being a
>>candidate to participate. Not much different than the phone company
>>investigating if you can have DSL.
>>So, what we have here is a voluntary program that saves water, at no cost 
>>the would-be saver, and transfers the savings of water to a would-be new
>>water user when they get a building permit.
>>What is missing to put this into action?
>>1. Deciding to adopt and become strict about adhering to the PBAC water
>>2. Building the mechanism to swap the toilets (or other conservation
>>3. Securing funding for #2.
>>Anything missing?
>>Does this list have the political will to support this idea?
>>How would you go about selling it (or defeating it)?
>>On 4/25/06 10:06 AM, "vision2020-request at moscow.com"
>><vision2020-request at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>  In regards to the last issue "where do you stand":  I want to conserve. 
>>> But
>>>  it costs me more to conserve than I can afford.  The cheapest rain 
>>> barrel I
>>>  can find is $100 plus shipping, I need at least 4 of them. I don't have 
>>> the
>>>  money to purchase a new front load washer and would have a hard time
>>>  justifying it without an old broken one.  I can't afford to put in a 
>>> sprinkler
>>>  system (I would love to have one).  Sure, I got a 3% increase in pay 
>>> this
>>>  year, but my groceries, gasoline, clothing, health care insurance, and
>>>  basically all consumables have increased this year by more than 3%.  I 
>>> pay
>>>  twice as much for water as my counter parts in southern Idaho.  And I 
>>> just
>>>  found out I will have to pay out $4000 on braces for a child. What do 
>>> you do?
>>>  Where do you start?  I have low flush toilets and a water saver shower 
>>> head
>>>  (you can get that shower head free from the city!).  What else can I 
>>> do?
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