[Vision2020] So long, Ed, and thanks for all the fishiness

[Joan Opyr]

On Apr 23, 2006, at 10:39 PM, Ed wrote:

"Wow, what a tirade from the Woolf camp. Her lack of reasoning ability really doesn't
justify a 
response, but I'll oblige, briefly!

>From what I make of the Wilson camp--as well as his congregation, they exhibit superior
morals 
by far than the Intoleristas (you know who you are) on this forum that hide behind pen
names 
(whilst slinging the stench from the extreme left). Further, a quick google search of your
name in 
Moscow reveals that you are involved in scandal after scandal at every crossroad. And,
since 
you've elevated this to an  ad hominem level, what a fine specimen.....I feel sorry for
your 
husband.

Anyway, I respectfully listen to others' opinions and, although I may disagree, I don't
name call 
and presume stupidity because of differences in belief systems. We are all entitled to our
own 
opinions. I guess "guy," "dude," and Mr. Ed (an animal) aren't that bad...but, my name
really is Ed, 
Jackie. I love being called names, especially from someone so loving as you so imply..

The history lesson wasn't necessary...but perhaps I'll check out the racist Dr. Seuss
classic you 
promote.

Lastly, Jackie misquotes me by saying 'Now you seem to be saying we are doomed to
perdition 
with no hope, no way out and no future simply because, in your opinion, some very loving
and 
caring folks want to get married.'  If you can't comprehend plain English, then don't read
my 
posts. I never implied that homosexual marriage, it itself, is responsible for all the
ills of the 
world--it is simply one of the many problems, we, as a Nation, face.

Further, it's your opinion that these people I refer to are loving and caring..   Watch
your 
modifiers, Jackie.

This tongue-tied horse is off to see the sandman, Cheers!'
----------------------------------

Ed:

J. Ford is an individual with the individual's First Amendment right to express an opinion
or, 
indeed, many opinions.  I do not identify with the term intolerista.  It's a neologism
coined by 
Doug Wilson and adopted by his self-annointed mouthpiece, Dale Courtney, and it is not
used as 
an accurate descriptor but as an insult.  As such, intolerista is as offensive to me as
"dyke" or 
"fag," and I ask you (politely) to stop using it.  You may find me intolerant -- and when
it comes 
to ignorant homophobic rants, I am -- but that does not make me an "intolerista," any more
than 
my perception of you as ignorant and bigoted makes you a "Wilsonista."  

Are we clear on this?  I certainly hope so.  If, as you claim, you "respectfully listen to
other's 
opinions," you cannot simultaneously dismiss those others as intoleristas, a term they
find 
offensive and that you pulled off of Dale Courtney's half-assed blog.  To follow that up
with the 
dubious observation that "Dale Rocks" calls into question your respectful listening, as
the only 
rocking Dale wants to do involves lining up folks like me and casting the first stone.

When I'm back from Portland, I'll address Michael Metzler's very good and very provocative
points 
concerning marriage.  In the meantime, suffice it to say that I didn't mean to refer
solely to the 
Bible in my brief history of wedlock.  I refer also to cultural traditions.  Chattel
marriage was the 
norm throughout most of the world until the last century or so, and, because of that, 
"sacramental marriage" did not exist for the unwashed masses.  We still have common law 
marriage, i.e., legally recognized (to some extent) but informal, meaning not officially
church-
sanctioned, relationships.

Another thing: J. Ford refers to many people on this list as caring and loving -- people
Dale 
Courtney, and now you, Ed -- have identified as "intoleristas."  We can be caring and
loving, Ed, 
though you do make it hard.  I think the open-handed offers of dialog you received from
Keely, 
Michael, Chas, Joe and (gasp) even Donovan are proof positive of J. Ford's kind
assessment.  
Once again, as I make occasion to do every so often, I extend the hand of friendship to
the 
ordinary members of Christ Church.  Until the elders manage to distinguish loyalty to Doug
from 
loyalty to God, they're on their own, but I care very much about what happens to the rank
and 
file.  I have seen what happens when the rank and file break ranks; when they try to leave
and 
find themselves shunned, unemployed, slandered and defamed.  And, no, while I'm happy to
talk 
theology with the willing, I don't try to change those members' beliefs; if you are happy
being a 
five-point TULIP Calvinist, then I'm glad that you're happy.  I'm not a fan of Calvin, but
I'm not 
about converting the world to my particular brand of Judaism.  I want each of us to find
peace 
with our maker -- or simply make peace with ourselves.  You need not believe in God or
gods for 
that: atheists, agnostics, and secular humanists welcome.    

Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
www.joanopyr.com

PS: In refusing to be named "intolerista" by Doug Wilson and his ilk, I am not claiming to
be 
tolerant of their agenda from Moscow -- far from it.  I am intolerant of Doug's
intolerance, and 
that, Ed, is no vice.  I have said it before and I will say it again -- tolerance does not
mean being 
a doormat.  Not for Doug, not for you, not for anyone.  There is room in Moscow for all of
us -- 
though Doug has declared that gays and lesbians should be either executed or exiled. 
Heck, I 
thought I was exiled.  Why else would a lesbian "urban sophisticate such as myself" in a
town 
where you can't buy Gucci loafers?

PPS: Five points if you can name the movie I quote from above.  I'll give you a hint: the
urban 
sophisticate is called "Black Bart."






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