[Vision2020] Tony's evasion and sneering continues

nickgier at adelphia.net nickgier at adelphia.net
Tue Apr 11 22:33:47 PDT 2006

Hi Tony,

May I kindly ask you to cut out this "Teach" crap, OK?  I always enjoyed debating Phil Nisbet (may he rest in peace) on this list, but he liked to throw in a "Dr." and "Prof" ever once in a while to provoke me until I called him on it.

By the way, Phil knew what an argument was and knew what was required of him to be an honest debater.  I'm afraid I can't say the same for you, Tony.

You have conceded the argument to me at least twice by defining the value of human beings in terms of consciousness and significant mental life.  I then give examples of the significant mental life of some of our higher animal friends and your only answer is a sneer.  Thanks, Tom, for posting that moving story about how grateful the whale was to be freed from the fishing gear.

You say that "human beings are human beings," but why do we count their lives as valuable?  You appear confused about your answer.  From Aristotle to the Christian philsophers Boethius and Thomas Aquinas, to Sir Edward Coke, and even today's conservative Christian theologians, the answer to this question has been "significant mental life."  (I'm proud to be part of this "civilized community.")  The science of fetal development shows us that does not happen until at least 25 weeks.
Furthermore, you refuse to confront the logic of your belief that God is a person, which proves that there are persons who are not human beings--both divine and terrestial and disproves your genetic argument.

Finally, your genetic definition of a person commits you to a non-Christian, materialistic view of the self, which I woud not advise you holding.  You simply digress by stating the obvious: we will never understand the full nature of the soul, if it exists. Psychologists and philosophers have enough trouble talking about the self we experience let alone an immaterial soul that we don't.

Tony, until you join the logic club, this exchange is going nowhere.  Your firery rhetorical score is very high, but your logic score is very low.


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