[Vision2020] Atwood Letter Rewritten

Area Man areaman at moscow.com
Tue Apr 4 13:01:36 PDT 2006


Bigoted against bigotry?

I guess if you gotta be bigoted against something . . .

DC

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of joekc at adelphia.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 12:52 PM
To: Donovan Arnold
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com; DonaldH675 at aol.com; Saundra Lund
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Atwood Letter Rewritten


I've talked with Joan, Rose, et. al. and they are not "bigoted against
conservative Christians." They are against bigotry disguised as
religion.

--
Joe Campbell

---- Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

=============
Gary,
  
 I don't have to speculate it is personal. Just ask  them. Joan, Rose,
and her entire household & friends will just tell  you flat out they are
bigoted against conservative Christians and have  a personal ax to grind
with Wilson. 
  
  Please keep up your insightful posts, it saves me from writing so
much.
  
  _DJA

"g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:              Donovan,  Since
I don't have the ability to peer into the hearts and minds of the
principal players in this overblown imbroglio I am reluctant to ascribe
motive. However on the face of it there is all the appearance of
something other than wanting to be able to park in the two southernmost
rows of the Jackson St. parking lot at play here. If I had to  guess I
suspect it has to do with personal animosities and not  some grand
liberal, anti Christian agenda as some on this list may have  speculated
on our behalf.
   
  G. Crabtree
      ----- Original Message ----- 
    From:     Donovan Arnold 
    To: g. crabtree ; Saundra Lund ;     vision2020 at moscow.com 
    Cc: DonaldH675 at aol.com 
    Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 10:11     PM
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Atwood Letter     Rewritten
    


"To not do so, once again,  makes this look like a personnel 
crusade for you and your commandos."-- Gary Crabtree

But Gary, this is a personal crusade for her and her commandos. What did
you think it was about?

_DJA



"g.     crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:    Ms.       Lund,

What ever in the world are you talking about?

"Simply       put, when one church is
> rightly denied exemption because it's       competing with commercial
businesses
> and another is given a pass,       that's discriminatory."

What "churches" are you referring to? My       point with regard to tax
exemption 
was that NSA like ALL schools is tax       exempt no matter where they
are 
located. This being the case, NSA's tax       status was irrelevant to
the BOA. If 
you believe that NSA should NOT be       tax exempt, I would be able to
respect 
your argument IF you were to       apply the revocation to all
educational 
institutions. (or even only       religiously affiliated ones) When you
only 
complain about NSA in this       manner it makes it hard for me to
believe that 
this isn't a personal       matter and that all the posturing with
regard to 
taxes, commercial       frontage, and parking aren't just means to an
end.

With regard to Mr.       Reed selling his restaurant to the U of I, my
only 
objection would be       that the university was wasting tax dollars on
an 
unprofitable       operation. If they want to lease the space from the
brothers 
Bode, I       couldn't care less. I seriously doubt the U of I would be
interested 
in       such a proposition.

As to your parking space breakdown, it still       appears to me that
you are 
massaging the numbers to make your case. With       NSA at current
enrollment and 
the commercial space unoccupied, parking       is fairly commensurate
with other 
spaces downtown and far better then       when GTE was the occupant. I
am certain 
that as GTE started to       underutilize the building and finally left 
altogether, surrounding       properties/businesses came to see those
newly 
available slots as theirs.       Sadly this is not the case. No space in
that lot 
"belongs" to any       business. The fact that plenty of U of I students
park 
there and walk to       school proves this contention. As I said before,
if you 
are serious       about the parking problem explore the option of
meters, permits 
or       LID's. To not do so, once again, makes this look like a
personnel       
crusade for you and your commandos.

G. Crabtree

P.S.       Speaking of the commandos, what kind of mission do you
suppose "J. 
Ford"       was on today? Was it part of the even handed civic
mindedness that       
typifies this whole debate?


----- Original Message -----       
From: "Saundra Lund" 
To: "'g. crabtree'"       ; 
Cc: ; "'Ted Moffett'" 
Sent: Sunday,       April 02, 2006 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Atwood Letter       Rewritten


> Hi Again Mr. Crabtree,
>
> You       wrote:
> "Ms. Lund, I'm not sure what the asterisks on either side of
*you* implies
> but I would have been happy to have made your       acquaintance.
Perhaps next
> time. Look for a middle aged, blue collar       Neanderthal who sits
close to 
> the
> door in case a hasty exit       is required. (crowds make me a bit
edgy)"
>
> Ah-HA!!! So, you       took one of my favorite seats! Save me one by
the door
> next time, if       possible, because I'm not a huge fan of crowds,
either.
>
> The       asterisks meant nothing more than I would have appreciated
meeting       you
> to put a face with the name :-)
>
> And, I honestly       mean no offense, but have you looked around? I
think a
> pretty fair       number of men would fit the description you
provided, at least
> to my       eyes ;-) Perhaps name tags would be a good idea ;-)
>
> You       wrote:
> "From the top. Yes you are right. I was making broad
generalizations in my
> communication with Ms.Woolf . . .       "
>
> Good, I'm glad we got that cleared up. FWIW, I'm glad       you're
willing to
> accept my notes and the Trib article as accurate       reflections of
what was
> actually said at the       meeting.
>
> You also wrote:
> "If you would like to make       a less discriminatory argument for
revoking tax
> exemptions for all       schools and churches have at it."
>
> Sorry, I don't think       there's anything at all discriminatory
about 
> expecting
> our       laws to be followed -- quite the contrary: it's
discriminatory for 
>       our
> laws not to be fairly and equitably applied. Simply put, when
one church 
> is
> rightly denied exemption because it's       competing with commercial
businesses
> and another is given a pass,       that's discriminatory.
>
> You also wrote:
> "Zoning       allows for educational institutions downtown with a
CUP."
>
>       Yes, that's what's allowed *now*, but that's *not* what was
allowed       in
> February, 2003 when NSA opened for classes on Main       Street.
>
> You also wrote:
> "I'll worry about BSU       hogging up Main St. with a satellite
campus when the
> danger is a       trifle more immanent. "
>
> What about the UI? I'll admit I       found the whole "we were never
concerned
> about the UI expanding       downtown" nonsense to be amusing . . .
remember 
> City
> staff       and some (former) Council members blathering on & on about
how       they
> had searched & searched unsuccessfully for proof that had       ever
been an 
> issue
> or concern, all the while ignoring the       testimony of those with
first-hand
> knowledge? What a pathetic joke!       It took lil' ol' me no more
than 5-10
> minutes of searching the       Lewiston Tribune archives to find the
articles,
> something the City       in its "exhaustive" searches failed to find.
Why do 
> you
>       suppose that is??? Could it possibly be the City was practicing
CYA for       
> its
> role in the whole NSA mess?
>
> So, if Mr.       Reed sells Basillio's to the UI, you'd have no
objection to it
> being       removed from the tax rolls and classes being held there,
right?
>
> You also wrote:
> "I must admit I was shocked       to hear Ms. Husky's seemingly
contradictory 
> turn
> about of       opinion with regard to the school and it's students."
>
> Huh? I       think you must be confused. I don't want to speak for
Rose, but I
>       think we have always been consistent in our position that while
neither       of
> us would ever send our kids to NSA, we absolutely don't have a
problem 
> with
> NSA in Moscow as long as it operates within       the law and in an
appropriate
> location, which we don't believe is in       the CBD.
>
> You also wrote:
> "As to the parking, forgive       me if I do this from memory. I don't
have the
> stats or the meeting       minutes available. My understanding is that
with the
> collage at its       current enrollment, it is using parking at the
same level 
>       as
> any other commercial use. "
>
> Mr. Crabtree, in my       last response to you I gave you the facts
that show 
> your
>       understanding is flatly incorrect. The facts I gave you (which
I'm
>       including again) came from my notes:
> "No, sorry, wrong again. City       staff made the point that NSA
*alone*
> accounts for about 7% of all       auto trips on Main Street: the
average daily
> trip count is 4806 with       NSA accounting for 332.2 of those trips.
One
> educational institution       *alone* accounts for 7%, which is
clearly out of
> proportion and a       higher use than other Main St. establishments.
Also, 
> based
>       on NSA's current enrollment and staffing, it requires 43 parking
stalls       
> with
> an additional 11 required for the retail space. At       NSA's maximum

> allowable
> enrollment and staffing, they will       require 65 parking stalls
(plus 11 for
> the retail space). City staff       stated that NSA requires 12-34
more parking
> stalls that other       commercial uses of similar size."
>
> That is the information       presented by City staff, and should you
think
> perhaps my notes are       wrong, the following comes from the Daily
News'
> article:
> "A       Community Development Department staff report shared at the
meeting
>       stated NSA creates a need for 43-65 parking stalls, which is
12-34       more
> stalls than other commercial uses of the same size in downtown.
"
>
> My notes are more detailed than what appeared in the Daily       News,
but the
> facts are the same and contrary to your understanding.       Even at
its 
> current
> enrollment, NSA uses *more* parking       that other commercial uses
of the same
> size.
>
> Now, if       you want to prove that City staff's numbers are wrong,
knock
>       yourself out -- I'd be interested. Otherwise, your understanding
just       
> isn't
> supported by the available facts.
>
>       Finally, you also wrote:
> "As I have said before, this really isn't       about parking (much
less the
> slippery slope of educational       orgs.)"
>
> I would say the real issue is about the fair and       equal
application of the
> law. I agree with Ted Moffett who wrote,       "Selective enforcement
of the 
> law
> is a cornerstone of       bigotry and intolerance, with favors and a
"wink" 
> handed
>       out to those who conform to the values and ideology of those in
power."       
> For
> whatever reason, the zoning laws where changed to       prevent
non-commercial
> schools & educational institutions from       locating in the CBD.
Then, when 
> NSA
> steamrolls over the       rules the rest of us have followed -- and
mind you, 
> they
>       made NO ATTEMPT to change the law first -- they get the wink & a
nod . .       .
> and a blind eye turned to their lawbreaking not once, but twice.
When the
> illegality of that conduct is challenged, the rules are       changed
solely for
> NSA's benefit. Talk about bigotry &       intolerance . . .and it's
not coming
> from those you apparently would       like to blame.
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow,       ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for       good
people to do
> nothing.
> - Edmund Burke
>
>       ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005,
Saundra       Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision
2020 forum
> without the express written permission of the       author.*****
>
>
>       


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