[Vision2020] Re: Spiders, Humans, God & 'War

[Joseph Campbell]

I agree with everything you say here, Ted!

Joe Campbell

On 10/14/05 1:34 AM, "Tbertruss at aol.com" <Tbertruss at aol.com> wrote:

> 
> Chas et. al.
> 
> Chas wrote:
> 
> I have never understood this sentiment.  In your illustration of the
> spider, the spider at least registers that we exist (or so I imagine;
> I've never been inside of a spider's mind, if it has one, to verify
> that this is true).  in the case of humanity assessing God, we
> necessarily invent Him out of whole-cloth, as He has left us no
> inarguable evidence of His existence.  Determining the intentions and
> actions of this possibly/probably fictional entity is the only avenue
> we have available.  It is amazing in the sole sense that attempting to
> fathom the attributes of an invisible pink unicorn is amazing;
> 
> Chas wrote the above in response to this:
> 
> This is like saying a spider understand the intentions of a human being doing
> quantum mechanics.  The spider simply is incapable of understanding in this
> manner, as human beings, speculatively speaking, very well may be incapable of
> understanding the intentions and mind of a being that created the entire
> universe
> 
> ---------------------
> 
> I'm not sure if you are agreeing with the usefulness of my spider analogy or
> not... What sentiment do you not understand?  That I am astonished that human
> beings believe in incredible and impossible things?  Perhaps you think I
> should not be astonished?  Ah, but I am but a new born babe in the woods,
> wondering, wondering, dazed at the infinite possibilities of the human
> imagination! 
> 
> I do not agree that the spider registers that "we" exist.  I may be
> nit-picking, but though the spider will respond to a stimulus that you
> present, it may have no recognition of who or what you are, that you are biped
> mammal, and not a tree blowing in the wind, and it certainly does not
> comprehend Quantum mechanics, which was the condition I set for comparing a
> spider's comprehension of human intellect to the comprehension of the human
> mind of the mind or capabilities of a being that was capable of creating the
> entire universe.
> 
> My comparison in this case was not meant to be precise, nor does it hammer
> home my point conclusively.  Just because a spider cannot comprehend a human
> being doing Quantum mechanics does not mean necessarily that a being who
> created the entire universe is completely beyond the comprehension of the
> human mind.  But the image of a spider attempting to understand Quantum
> mechanics should communicate to the reader the great disparity in intellectual
> and other sorts of capabilities that might, indeed, would probably be present,
> between a creator of the universe, and human beings.  And that the absolute
> certainty some fervent believers in God find so easy, that they understand
> what God wants, is questionable, or should be questioned, perhaps especially
> when what they believe that God wants is war against other human beings.
> 
> Ted Moffett
> 
> 


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