[Vision2020] Wal-Mart cause and effect

[Pat Kraut]

I am beginning to see this as only a labor, union problem. I think the union
world has lost some control and are not happy. I wonder if you look at who
funded the movie against Wal-Mart it was a lot of union money. I have worked
both with a union and without one. I can tell you that there was no perfect
answer to the problems on the job either way. Unions may well have hurt
themselves with their high wages and pension demands so much that they are
on the way out without any movement by the government. The Delta employees
would not give an inch and are going to loose their jobs for their tough
minded stupidity. Car manufacturing is all but leaving the USA because of
the union demands. I was in a meeting where the Teamster rep talked about
blowing up buildings so I know they do it and will again. They made some
great changes in the beginning but they may well have now gone so far that
they are pushing us out of the market.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Harkins" <jeffh at moscow.com>
To: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart cause and effect


Keely,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I haven't seen the film, so I can't comment on
the film's message firsthand.  From the comments
I have seen about the film, it does appear that
labor practices are the primary focus.  Much of
the commentary seems driven to advance a labor
movement or labor union agenda - and if this is
accurate, hardly inspired as an egalitarian agenda.

My comment about the "blockbuster" was intended
to direct you to the film review site. The rating
appears to be intended to advise readers about
the "quality" of the film, nothing more.  What I
do know about the film is that the scenarios
portrayed were hand-picked by the director - and
were not a random sample.  There are two (or
more) sides to the issues germane to Walmart;
from the comments I have seen thus far, only one
side is portrayed in the film.  This would lead
me to suspect that the film is more of a
propaganda piece than a film about the social value of a large retailer.

The quotes are intended to illustrate that point
- there are numerous points of view about the
Walmart theme!  Go to the site and read the blogs
- you will get a sense of that point.  I was
especially interested in the remarks of the
disgruntled worker.  WalMart was the only job he
could get - I wonder why?  If the quote can be
believed as genuine, WalMart gave this kid a job
when no one else would.  Is that in society's best interest?

I really have to redirect you from the belief
that you and I differ on Walmart.  I am far less
concerned about WalMart and far more concerned
about the processes we use in Latah County to
promote a viable local economy.  The success of
WalMart in our town is a testament to the fact
that the firm provides "value" to local
consumers. My concerns are about free enterprise
and consumer choice - framed around the "free
speech" metaphor.  I may not like the fact that
you shop (or not shop) at Walmart and I really
wish you wouldn't (or would) shop there, but I
will defend your right to shop (or not shop) there - it really is that
simple.



At 07:21 AM 11/21/2005, you wrote:
>Umm, Jeff, you seem to have missed the point, and then another, in your
post:
>
>1.   The importance of the film's message is not
>subject to mass-market acceptance.  In other
>words, whether or not the film is a blockbuster
>doesn't matter.  I would hardly expect a
>documentary about the world's largest retailer
>to command the audience of the new Harry Potter
>movie, but I don't discount the worth of the
>former because it doesn't compete with the
>latter.  Unfortunately, the pain and suffering
>portrayed in the movies didn't involve special
>effects, car chases, wizardry and Angelina Jolie
>-- but I'm glad to be one of the folks who was
>able to sit through it nonetheless.
>
>2.  The quotes you post on how much the movie
>sucks include defiant assertions that Wal-Mart
>is great because you can get pretty much
>everything you need in one place for less
>money.  If I, or you, or the spoiled American
>consumer were the point, that would indeed be
>germane.  But we're not, and it isn't.  The film
>expresses in a hard-hitting, heart-wrenching way
>the devastation wreaked upon people and
>communities because of the cherished belief that
>our convenience -- MY convenience -- is the only
>thing that matters.  Quotes from people who
>stubbornly cling to the belief that they are the
>measure of all things only prove the film's point.
>
>I know that you and I view Wal-Mart differently,
>but I think your arguments are better made
>without references to links that illustrate
>points you probably would do better to avoid.
>
>keely emerine mix
>
>
>
>
>From: Jeff Harkins <jeffh at moscow.com>
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart cause and effect
>Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:59:28 -0800
>
>Try some peppermint tea - might calm you down a
>bit.  Vilified again - the days of gentile
>discourse are past I fear - I will opine to the
>"cutting-edge sarcasm" in another post.
>
>Some have commented on the Walmart movie.  I
>haven't had a chance to see the flick, but I
>have browsed through the reviews of the
>"documentary".  Here is a link to one of the
>online based movie review sites - pointed to the
>reviews of "Walmart - The High Cost of Low
>Prices".  The movie is currently carrying a
>rating of 6.6/10 - not exactly a block buster yet.
>
>If you scroll through the WalMart section, you
>will come across the blogs - fascinating stuff - here is a sample:
>
>
>The title itself is ridiculous. The high cost of
>LOW price?!? are you kidding me?? This is like
>trying to convince someone of the low costs of
>HIGH price. If i'm getting this right,
>disgruntled former employees and competitors
>(figures) seem to be the prime sources of dirt
>on this business. People need to realize that
>employers don't pay the wages of their
>workers....consumers do. Admit it, all of you
>that support this are also supporting a tougher
>life on poor people for the benefit of the less
>competitive 'mom and pop' stores. Sometimes the
>little guy sucks at providing a good product at
>a good price and needs to cut his losses. That's
>america folks. Hard work and true grit. Besides
>if I were running a business, I'd feel pretty
>pathetic if the only way I could stay in
>business was to enact legislation to force other
>companies to not compete with me. From the
>worker's point of view, who's a better employer?
>A small hardware store? Or a large one with many
>different departments? Keep in mind that you get
>paid depending on how much money the store
>makes. And to all you supporters of a living
>wage, you need to realize (which you would have
>if you worked a day in your life), that most
>workers don't stay at that minimum wage for
>long. If they're worth anything they get
>promoted quickly and move up the ranks, or
>they'll find another place to work that pays
>better. Its the lazy, pathetic ones that stay at
>the same wage and don't do anything. why would
>you want to give more money to someone who
>doesn't give a damn? Personally i'd abolish any mandatory wage.
>
>God just thinking about this infuriates me. Do
>you people that support this movie (face it, its
>not a documentary no matter how hard you try)
>actually realize how awesome this company
>is?!?!? They have everything! in ONE STORE. Its
>all really cheap and so you get great deals plus
>they donated millions of dollars to Katrina
>Relief! And now you're attacking a company
>that's there to give you what you want at a
>lower price. are you NUTS? In fact, I might go
>there right now and purchase one of their 400
>dollar laptops for christmas. Oh wait, its bad
>that laptops are so cheap, we don't want any poor people buying that stuff
huh?
>
>I hope this "documentary" makes less money than
>it cost to produce it. That would make my day.
>
>Here is another example:
>
>Amen, dude.
>I'm stuck being a slave for Wal-Mart right now.
>The only reason I'm even there is because I need the money.
>Which almost isn't worth it cuz I get paid sh!t.
>I just got a raise after my 90 day eval and I
>still ain't gettin' paid what I should be.
>It's probably even worse for me because I'm
>stuck working in the back in unloading, which is
>NOT what I applied for when I put in the application.
>I freakin' hate it.
>The work isn't too bad, you get used to it, but
>I hate the fact that I'm back there busting my
>ass for this place so they can have their
>precious merchandise and I get paid crap for it.
>We should be making more than the rest of the
>people that work their because they just stand
>around on the sales floor all night while we're
>all back there unloading their huge ass trucks for hours on end.
>And I work with alot of ass holes too.
>I work with ass holes bitches and one just
>really freakin' stupid guy who's been there for
>a few weeks and likes to act like he knows more
>than everyone else and tells you how to do your job.
>I just wanna slap that guy.
>We had one really cool manager who listened to
>you and would actually come back and help when
>it was really busy, but then he left to go
>manage another store and the chick they sent in
>his place is such a raging bitch.
>She acts like she runs the whole store when
>she's only an assitant night manager, which
>means she walks around all night and doesn't do anything.
>The other night we were still working on one of
>the trucks at 9 at night and she wanted
>everything taken out to the floor by 10.
>Dream on, bitch.
>This was my last resort job, too.
>If nobody else hired me, then I had Wal-Mart to fall back on.
>And lucky me I get stuck with it.
>Sam Walton should be dug up and slapped cuz his stores *beep* suck!
>
>Here is a short excerpt
>
>This is a true disingenuous assertion. Wages are
>set by the market, not by Wal-Mart. If Wal-Mart
>did not offer a better deal for its workers,
>then most of them would turn their resumes to
>the competition. What Wal-Mart aims at is the
>cadre of unskilled or elderly people, that will
>accept the lower wages because the other companies will NOT hire them.
>
>Here is the link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0473107/
>
>Enjoy!
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN
>Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


_____________________________________________________
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯