[Vision2020] RE: HTML Formatting and the Blind

[Donovan Arnold]

Wayne,

You will have to forgive me, I was unaware that you
were an expert on the disabled and computer software. 

I want to thank you for letting me know that this
graduate student, that is blind, is in fact obviously
an idiot. That he was not smart enough to try buying
or purchasing a program for converting HTML format.
How did he ever get into graduate school? 

Either that or there is still no program that converts
all HTML formats perfectly. Clearly, this guy had his
wife drive him all the way up from Lewiston and came
into our office to complain about the HTML formatting,
all for nothing. Being a blind graduate student, he
obviously would be oblivious of disability support
services, CO-AD, the Disability Action Center, or
bothered to research what computer technologies were
available for the blind. He is blind, so obviously, as
Wayne implies, he is stupid and helpless, unable to
figure this out on his own.

But, why should I listen to a blind intelligent
graduate student who gives lectures and conferences,
and uses the programs on a daily basis when instead I
can listen to Wayne Fox, expert on the blind and
computer software capabilities.

If the software box claims to convert HTML format to
plain text format, clearly it does 100% of the time,
regardless or font, color, graphic, or italics,
because we all know that software works perfectly and
it is the people that use them that are idiots. 

What Wayne fails to realize is that not all HTML
formatting converts perfectly to plain text so that a
program that reads the words out loud for the blind
work well. It depends on what is in the HTML
formatting, like if someone uses italics, it does not
work. I trust the words of blind people over that of
Wayne Fox. And you will find that most graduate
students that are blind have already exhaustively
explored all resources for accessing written text.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold 

PS. Maybe you can tell him some other problems that
blind people have and how to deal with it, since you
are such the expert, Wayne.

 

--- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:

> Donovan,
> 
> I can only repeat what Rose recently said, but a
> little differently.  If you 
> continue to make asinine assertions about matters
> where ignorance is your 
> chief qualification, then what little credibility
> you have left will be 
> eviscerated.
> 
> Most email processors can be set to translate HTML
> emails into plaintext 
> before the reader even views them.  The effect is
> that the email appears as 
> a plaintext document and can be processed by most
> text to voice programs as 
> such.  If the blind and visually disabled are having
> problems with HTML 
> email with their particular programs, they need to
> switch to translators 
> that work with them.  Such programs do exist and are
> widely available.
> 
> For example, the blind, contrary to your assertion,
> can surf the web with 
> several different popular browsers when certain
> add-ins are used.  Perhaps 
> you don't understand, but all websites are written
> in a language which needs 
> to be translated.  Most primarily use HTML and/or
> its many variants.  Some 
> are now completely written in XML.  Websites are not
> written in plaintext.
> 
> You may test the truth of this yourself using
> Microsoft Internet Explorer 
> for example:
> 
> 1.    Go to any website.
> 2.    Place the cursor somewhere on a webpage but
> not on a graphic.
> 3.    Right click.
> 4.    From the menu that appears, choose and click
> on View Source.
> 5.    Contemplate what you see.
> 6.    Tell us what you see and what you think it
> means.
> 
> You say:
> 
> "I just learned today..."
> 
> Perhaps you need better and more sources.  Perhaps,
> Janesta and/or someone 
> who works with the disabled can provide more
> information about where to 
> acquire general text to voice programs that work
> with HTML.
> 
> Although many V 2020ers may have placed you on their
> Bozo Filter, I haven't, 
> because occasionally you make some well thought out
> and cogent observations. 
> The number of these now is few and far between.  You
> appear to be guided in 
> discussions  by high school debate tactics where the
> goal is to win points 
> based on some forensic scoring system, rather than
> exploring an issue.  This 
> is a common practice among those you are an
> apologist for.  It is a very 
> common practice among the CCC apologists, for
> example, Dale Courtney, 
> Douglas Wilson, Thomas Garfield, Roy Atwood. etc.
> 
> If you want to be taken as a credible voice, perhaps
> you should look before 
> you leap.
> 
> I expect your response to this post will be to
> ignore the facts presented 
> and to spew more irrelevant abuse or make up more
> information.  You should 
> think carefully about this.  If you do not change
> this kind of behavior, you 
> will likely not be encouraged to help any more local
> political candidates. 
> Peg Hamlet has just learned a lesson in this regard,
> just as Linda Pike did.
> 
> It is very unlikely this post will have any effect
> on your behavior patterns 
> because of the post's author.  Perhaps you ask
> someone you trust and who is 
> a normal person to be brutally frank with you on
> this issue.
> 
> 
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> deco at moscow.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Donovan Arnold"
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>; "'Chasuk'"
> <chasuk at gmail.com>; 
> "'Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 1:41 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] RE: HTML Formatting and the
> Blind
> 
> 
> >I just learned today, that when a person writes in
> > those large awkward fonts, even just italics,
> programs
> > that read text for the blind and visually impaired
> > cannot read them. So just another reason to avoid
> > HTML, be inclusive.
> >
> > --DJA
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Chas wrote:
> >> "I, myself, hate HTML formatting in e-mail.  I
> don't
> >> want enlarged fonts,
> >> images, color, or anything but plain text.  Am I
> a
> >> curmudgeon, or do others
> >> agree with me?"
> >>
> >> Well, I don't hate HTML, I just won't use it due
> to
> >> security concerns  :-)
> >> I don't mind "reading" messages in HTML format
> from
> >> people I know, but I
> >> won't take the risks for just anyone  ;-)
> >>
> >> Also, I've been around long enough to clearly
> >> remember the complaints from
> >> people using dial-up -- HTML messages are larger
> &
> >> therefore take longer to
> >> receive, which I suppose was more of a hardship
> back
> >> when most folks paid
> >> for their online time based on use rather than on
> >> unlimited connection time.
> >> I still hear folks complaining about the time it
> >> takes to download HTML
> >> messages, though.
> >>
> >> But, I'll take the opportunity to piggy-back on
> your
> >> poll  :-)  After a
> >> series of unscientific studies, I've determined
> that
> >> after posting to V2020,
> >> I get absolutely inundated with virus attempts,
> and
> >> I'm wondering if anyone
> >> else experiences this?
> >>
> >> The good news (for me, anyway) is that my
> computer
> >> is very secure, so the
> >> attempts fail  :-)  However, it is annoying, and
> it
> >> could be a major problem
> >> for those who don't practice safe computing.  If
> >> others have experienced
> >> this, I wonder if that might contribute to the
> lack
> >> of participation on
> >> V2020 by more community members.
> >>
> >>
> >> Saundra Lund
> >> Moscow, ID
> >>
> >> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
> is
> >> for good people to do
> >> nothing.
> >> Edmund Burke
> >>
> >> ***** Original material contained herein is
> >> Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
> >> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
> outside
> >> the Vision 2020 forum
> >> without the express written permission of the
> >> author.*****
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
=== message truncated ===


	
		
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