[Vision2020] Evangelical Christianity vs. Wilsonian Christianity

Sun May 29 18:04:21 PDT 2005

Mr. Fox,

I am now going to demand some level of evidence that
you have a degree of any kind in logic.

Apparently you do not understand that you are
comparing apples to oranges.

Of course the members of Christ Church believe in most
of the policies and beliefs of Christ Church.

But that is not the same thing as judging people for
the sins of their pastor.

If Mr. Wilson steals, does that mean that it is the
policy of NSA to steal? No. 

As to whether or not they punish him for his actions
or forgive is not privy to our knowledge is it now Mr.
Fox?

To judge hundreds of members of our community for the
sins of Mr. Wilson is not fair or just. If you wish to
judge members of CC and NSA for their beliefs, I have
not quarrel with that. But do not punish them or deny
them equal rights for believing something differently
than you. 

Donovan J Arnold

--- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:

> All,
> 
> Donovan posts:
> 
> "My point, and made clear before you twisted it, was
> that you cannot judge all members of the church by
> the sins of their pastor."
> 
> 
> Rebecca R. Rod in a letter to the editor in Friday's
> (05-27-05) Daily News gave a pellucid (with
> acknowledgement to Melynda) rebuttal to this point:
> 
> 
> ["Since Doug Wilson is such a charismatic figure his
> opinion seemed to be the opinion of Christ Church,
> which was most likely not the case."  {Quote from
> uninformed Daily News Managing Editor Steve
> McClure.}  
> 
> What sense does that make?
> 
> Why would a church body, a group of believers naming
> themselves after Jesus Christ, want to keep such a
> person in power as their leader and spokesperson if
> that body does not hold with the opinions of their
> loudest and strongest voice?
> 
> Do they really want to follow this man, or are they
> powerless to change their situation?]
> 
> 
> Are the opinions of the members of the Aryan Nations
> significantly different from those of (now deceased)
> Richard Butler?  
> 
> If they were different and expressed during Butler's
> life time, these dissenters would not be members
> very long (as did happen on a number of occasions in
> the Aryan Nations, and as also happened with the
> Christ Church Cult -- remember the firing of a Canon
> Press employee because of his wife's views or the
> firing of the NSA Music Master because he dared to
> vote against making dimbulb Cult Master Jr. Nate
> Wilson a full fellow).
> 
> There are at least two reasons to paint members of
> the Christ Church Cult with exactly the same colors
> as Cult Master Wilson:
> 
> [1]    Cult members are knowledgeable of, enable,
> and promulgate Wilson's sexist, homophobic, racist,
> anti-democracy, theocratic, anti-disabled, outré
> theological, etc views and patently obvious
> covenantal dishonesty by:
> 
>     [a]    belonging to and celebrating with the
> cult,
>     [b] especially by giving money to the cult, and
>     [c]    by overtly and ovinely gushing upon the
> Cult Master palavering worship.
> 
> For example, in recent months cult members through
> the cult elders (most of whom are economically
> dependent on the good graces of the Cult Master)
> loaned (read contributed) over $110,000 to Canon
> Press (Wilson's vanity press) to keep it afloat. 
> Canon Press published Southern Slavery: As It Was
> and other racist, sexist, homophobic, etc lame,
> delusionary tracts.  
> 
> When cult members give money, (roughly $450 per cult
> family) to publish this kind of discriminatory,
> general hate-ridden nonsense, it would be asinine to
> say they do not share and enable the Cult Master's
> views.
> 
> [2]    The Cult Master does not tolerate any
> dissent.  Besides the cases of the Canon Press
> employee and the NSA Music Master (who was perhaps
> their most qualified employee) mentioned above, the
> Cult Master specifically stated in a document that
> appeared on V 2020 that County Commissioner Paul
> Kimmell would be subjected to cult (read the Cult
> Master's) discipline if he failed to adhere to cult
> doctrine in matters before the commission which were
> addressed by cult doctrine, such as benefits for
> same sex partners.
> 
> Anyone who stays in the cult knows their place --
> with Wilson in all regards, or else in the stocks
> with full revenge exacted.  
> 
> Presumably cult members are sentient beings.  If
> they are not sexist, homophobic, racist,
> anti-disabled, etc., they would get out and find a
> real, more loving Christian, other, or no church. 
> In the meantime, let's not make unsupportable
> excuses for them, but see them clearly for what they
> stand.
> 
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> deco at moscow.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Donovan Arnold"
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; "'Nick Gier'"
> <ngier at uidaho.edu>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 8:55 AM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Evangelical Christianity
> vs. Wilsonian Christianity
> 
> 
> > Mr. Hansen,
> > 
> > First, thank you for correcting my error in
> referring
> > Mr. Wilson as having a degree he did not earn.
> > However, Mr. Wilson's level of educational
> attainment
> > has nothing to do with my arguments.
> > 
> > Second, I do believe that Dr. Gier has insulted
> the
> > members of Christ Church in his arguments
> comparing
> > the Taliban to the members of Christ Church. Which
> is
> > why he got himself in hot water on Mr. Courtney's
> > Blog. 
> > 
> > Finally, I never said that Mr. Wilson should not
> be
> > held to higher moral standards of scrutiny than
> others
> > in the church. My point, and made clear before you
> > twisted it, was that you cannot judge all members
> of
> > the church by the sins of their pastor. 
> > 
> > 
> > Donovan J Arnold
> > 
> > 
> > --- Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> >> Arnold -
> >> 
> >> WOW!
> >> 
> >> Where do I begin?
> >> 
> >> Let's examine just a couple of your quotes for
> now,
> >> ok?
> >> 
> >> " . . . it seems your real disagreement is with
> Dr.
> >> Wilson not NSA or Christ
> >> Church."
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Question:  What qualifies Doug Wilson to prefix
> his
> >> name with "Dr."?
> >> 
> >> Wilson, Douglas J., M.A., Member, Board of
> Trustees
> >> and Senior Fellow, 1994-
> >> M.A. in Philosophy, University of Idaho, 1977
> >> B.A. in Classical Studies, University of Idaho,
> 1988
> >> B.A. in Philosophy, University of Idaho, 1977
> >> 
> >> Copied and pasted from the NSA Faculty page at: 
> >> 
> >> http://www.nsa.edu/community/faculty.html
> >> 
> >> "It really seems counterproductive to attack
> >> hundreds of people in our
> >> community solely because you disagree with the
> >> personal actions of one
> >> member of their church."
> >> 
> >> Dr. Nick Gier did NOT "attack hundreds of people
> in
> >> our community".  He
> >> simply responded to Doug Wilson's "I Love Me"
> >> website entry "Naming the
> >> Intoleristas" at 
> >> 
> >>
> >
>
http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=1105
> >> 
> >> Doug Wilson is not simply "one member of their
> >> church."  He is the pastor
> >> for Christ Church.  And as such must under go
> closer
> >> scrutiny than John
> >> Doe's son, Jimmy, that falls asleep in church.
> 
=== message truncated ===>
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