[Vision2020] defining discrimination

Wed May 25 10:44:48 PDT 2005

Donovan,

This is my last word to you on the subject, as I've learned that responding 
to you can lead to an endless cycle of fruitless debate.  I know we both 
have more important things to do, so I'll just say this:

I didn't mention the zoning complaint at all in my post.  I know what 
"discriminating" means, even without your Encarta definition provided.  And 
while I do believe that churches are held to a higher standard by God, I 
expect civil authorities to rule with consummate fairness to all parties.

There's nothing here for you to argue with, but I'm relatively sure you're 
going to anyway, so have at it.

keely

From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
To: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>, deco at moscow.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Girl Scout Cookies (was re: Doing Kai's work for 
him)
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 22:48:36 -0700 (PDT)

Keely,

First, I do not agree with Christ Church and their
teachings. Nor am I, nor would I attempt to defend
someone else’s beliefs I do not understand or disagree
with.  I preach and practice many things contrary to
their beliefs. It is possible for me to believe in
equality for all people and oppose slavery but also
recognize that others have the right to disagree with
what I believe. Nor do I have the right to tell them
that their religion must conform to my beliefs and
religion. But more importantly, they have the right
not to have me harass them, follow them, and target
them. I do however, have the right to preach and
practice what I believe, and they do not have the
right to harass me, or force their religion on me. My
goal is to hinder discrimination and harassment. I do
not believe attacking a person making discriminating
remarks is the way to accomplish this goal. I think
allowing them to speak, present their fallacious
ideas, and for us to counter them using logic, facts,
and appeal to humanity is the better way to go in the
long, not forcefully shutting the doors of anyone who
disagrees with ideas and believes contrary to our own.

Second, you seem to be confused as to what
discrimination means. So I will clarify for you.

According to my online Encarta Dictionary,
Discriminate = “Treat one person of group worse than
others or better than others, usually because of a
prejudice about race, ethnic group, age group,
religion, or gender.”

If you discriminate in the enforcement of the law
against a group of people because of their religion
you are discriminating according to the dictionary. If
police only pull over Black people for an out
headlight and fine them $100 for the crime, the
officer may claim that the Black person did indeed
have an out headlight, but not pulling over any White
people and/or giving them a ticket for $100 is also
discrimination when they too have the out headlight.
Selectively enforcing the law is just as much
discrimination as writing a law that says Black people
pay $100 and White people pay $50 for the same
infraction of the law.

That is the same thing that is going on with NSA. Some
people are ruthlessly insisting on the enforcement of
the zoning codes as it applies to NSA. But ignore the
violations against city zoning codes against the
Alternative High School and the University of Idaho.

If you are advocating different levels of punishments
and enforcement of the law to NSA as you do the
University of Idaho and the Alternative High School
you are advocating that we “Treat one person or group
worse than others or better than others”, which
according to the dictionary, is “discrimination.”

There are only two non discriminating practices here.
Either enforcing the law with each party the same or
second, not enforcing the law equally with each party.
Otherwise the actions are discriminatory.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

--- keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:

 > Donovan, you're misusing the term "discriminate."
 > For example, if I refuse
 > to let you sit at my cafe's lunch counter because,
 > say, you're a one-legged
 > curly-haired Welsh banker, then I am guilty of
 > discrimination -- unless my
 > refusal is based on the fact that in a dozen
 > previous visits, you've written
 > obscene haiku on the counter with a Sharpie.  Then
 > my refusal to allow you
 > entrance is not an example of unfair discrimination,
 > but of common sense --
 > the discernment and discrimination that generally
 > prevents us from suffering
 > at the hands of others time and time again.
 >
 > Wayne and other Moscow citizens who object to Christ
 > Church's behavior --
 > and I am one of them -- do so because they find that
 > behavior, or the
 > teaching behind it, objectionable.  You may not find
 > those things
 > objectionable, but it is perfectly reasonable, even
 > honorable, to speak out
 > against and expose behavior you believe to be
 > dangerous or abhorrent.  As I
 > once told Doug Wilson, when you behave badly in the
 > public square, people
 > will not find you terribly appealing and will
 > probably point out your
 > misdeeds with varying degrees of passion.  That's
 > not persecution or
 > discrimination, that's just how people are.  An
 > unintended consequence, as
 > NSAers like to say, but not bigotry.
 >
 > My biggest regret is that while Wayne and others
 > speak out against Christ
 > Church, evangelical, Trinitarian, conservative
 > Christians shrink back and
 > fail to do so.  That is, to me, far more upsetting
 > than either Christ
 > Church's behavior or Wayne's reaction to it.
 >
 > keely
 >
 >
 >
 > From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
 > To: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>
 > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
 > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Girl Scout Cookies (was
 > re: Doing Kai's work for
 > him)
 > Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
 >
 > Wayne touts,
 >
 > "But it is my choice as a member of a free society
 > to
 > ask for enforcement of the law and to do other
 > things
 > toward entities with objectionable practices as
 > racism, homophobia, sexism, lying, cheating,
 > anti-democracy, theocracy, etc.  That's why I choose
 > to and will
 > continue to rail about and to expose the Christ
 > Church
 > . . ."
 >
 >
 > First, might I suggest selection of a different
 > approach to fighting bigotry and intolerance than to
 > use bigotry and intolerance?
 >
 > Second, you comment, "for enforcement of the law and
 > to do other things toward entities with
 > objectionable
 > practices". So now Wayne Fox is the ultimate decider
 > of what is objectionable and tolerable? And the
 > enforcer as well? Well, I do not seem to recall the
 > moment that God, or the good people of Moscow,
 > granted
 > you this arbitrary authority Mr. Fox. Can you please
 > point to the section of the Moscow City Code or the
 > Good Book where such authority is established?
 >
 > Or is it just that you, Mr. Fox, with your morally
 > superior intellectual skills, naturally just take
 > this
 > authority in the absence of Jesus Christ and God
 > Almighty himself?
 >
 > Third, might I be so bold as to suggest that if you
 > are going to tackle bigotry that you actually tackle
 > the reasons behind bigotry using logic, reason, and
 > appeal to your fellow citizens instead of saying you
 > will "do other things toward entities" that say they
 > believe in something different then you.
 >
 >
 > Finally, let Mr. Fox's words be testimony to the
 > fact,
 > that Mr. Fox is fully aware that he does what he
 > does
 > knowingly, discriminating against a group of people
 > because they believe in a religion different from
 > his
 > own. Rather then confronting arguments he disagrees
 > with using logical and appeal to his fellow
 > citizens,
 > he chooses to instead use force and discrimination
 > to
 > silence those whom he disagrees.
 >
 > Take Care,
 >
 > Donovan J Arnold
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > It is not possible to act with discriminating.  What
 > is important is
 > the
 > basis of discrimination.
 >
 > The world is full of tyrants, criminals, and/or
 > phonies.  I wish I had
 > the
 > time and aility to neutralize all of them.  I do
 > not,
 > hence I must
 > choose
 > on the basis of probable success, proximity, and
 > egregiousness.
 >
 > As Rose says in her posts:
 >
 > "One cannot level one's moral lance at every evil in
 > the universe.
 > There are
 > just too many of them. But you can do something, and
 > the difference
 > between
 > doing something and doing nothing is everything."
 > Daniel Berrigan
 >
 >  >From reading your posts over the last months, I
 > know
 > this is a
 > difficult, if
 > not impossible, concept for you and certain others
 > to
 > grasp.  Still
 > there is
 > hope that some begin to see the fat, green snake
 > lurking in the green
 > grass.
 >
 > Take care,
 >
 > Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
 > deco at moscow.com
 > --- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:
 >
 >  > Donovan,
 >  >
 >  > It is not my job to enforce the law, let alone
 >  > equally.  The is the job of
 >  > government, etc.  But it is my choice as a member
 > of
 >  > a free society to ask
 >  > for enforcement of the law and to do other things
 >  > toward entities with
 >  > objectionable practices as racism, homophobia,
 >  > sexism, lying, cheating,
 >  > anti-democracy, theocracy, etc.  That's why I
 > choose
 >  > to and will continue to
 >  > rail about and to expose the Christ Church Cult
 > and
 >  > other excrementitiously
 >  > parasitic organizations.  In this regard, stay
 >  > tuned.
 >  >
 >  > It is not possible to act with discriminating.
 > What
 >  > is important is the
 >  > basis of discrimination.
 >  >
 >  > The world is full of tyrants, criminals, and/or
 >  > phonies.  I wish I had the
 >  > time and ability to neutralize all of them.  I do
 >  > not, hence I must choose
 >  > on the basis of probable success, proximity, and
 >
=== message truncated ===

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