[Vision2020] Safe and Healthy Workplace
Pat Kraut
pkraut at moscow.com
Tue May 24 23:48:39 PDT 2005
If they are going to ask the govenment (US!) to pay for all the damages from
their stupid behavior then the government (US!) can tell them to stop!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Schmidt" <dickschmidt at moscow.com>
To: "David M. Budge" <dave at davebudge.com>; "Carl Westberg"
<carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Safe and Healthy Workplace
I was one of those disgusting people who smoked and did so for 40 years. I
stopped about 6 or 7 years ago with a lot of very determined effort and have
slight tinge of guilt about all the people who I inadvertently blew smoke on
all those years. Now some states have eliminated smoking in restaurants and
many other places and I am very thankful for that.
I must disagree with your blog where you state: "However, the obvious
questions is whether or not it's the role of government is to guard us from
ourselves while infringing on the property rights of its citizens."
I must disagree with you and will say that many people do not know what is
good for them. Someone does not have the right to smoke in my "space" and
subject me to second hand smoke! The government needs to demand people to
wear their seat belts, wear a helmet when you ride a motorcycle, don't burn
grass when it is dry and windy, and don't drive a vehicle on the road when
your alcohol level is .08 or higher. I'm beginning to believe that about 30%
or more of the American people are too stupid to know these things.
I was on a city council many years ago and we had some ass hole in the city
who would burn his garbage and he always did it in the summer when neighbors
had their windows open. (Back in those days it was allowed to burn papers
and burnable trash rather that put it in the landfill) The neighbors would
complain to the police, the police would go and talk to him and then it
would happen again. Finally after this neighbor had enough and came to a
city council meeting one evening with his story we voted that night to
eliminate all burning in the city. This was back in the middle 60s and our
action surprised a lot of people and I almost felt like a Hitler preventing
people from doing what they had been doing for many years but one ass hole
caused the whole problem. We were on the leading edge of the EPA "stuff" and
soon learned that what we did at the time was on the front edge of cutting
air pollution. I didn't feel quite so much like Hitler anymore.
Dick Schmidt
----- Original Message -----
From: "David M. Budge" <dave at davebudge.com>
To: "Carl Westberg" <carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Safe and Healthy Workplace
> Here's a fair question: Why does the government have a right to restrict
> a property owner from allowing his/her guests to engage in a legal
> activity on private property?
>
> My solution is here: http://davebudge.com/?p=316
>
> And I mean it.
>
> db
>
> Carl Westberg wrote:
>
>> I saw a great TV PSA the other night. It showed a crowded restaurant
>> with most of the customers wearing oxygen masks as they were dining. The
>> narrator said something like: "Only 20 percent of Americans smoke. Why
>> should the other 80 percent have to breathe their smoke?" I thought that
>> was a fair question.
>> Carl Westberg Jr.
>>
>>> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: Julie C <joodge at hotmail.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Safe and Healthy Workplace
>>> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:01:19 -0700 (PDT)
>>>
>>> Ms. C (Sorry I cannot digress to name calling as you
>>> have),
>>>
>>> First, I think you misunderstand. It is NOT part of
>>> the job description of a US soldier to get shot or
>>> die. That is the job of the opposing forces.
>>>
>>> Second, being around people smoking IS part of the job
>>> description of a bartender. They do things like, sell
>>> cigarettes, light cigarettes, give matches to people
>>> with cigarettes, clean and empty ashtrays, and
>>> extinguish cigarettes. So, yes, being around a
>>> cigarette is the part of the job description. Just
>>> like being around poopy diapers is a requirement for
>>> working with infants and babies. You are not required
>>> to smell them, but good luck avoiding them.
>>>
>>> If you think that smoking around the bartender should
>>> be reason to ban cigarettes because of OSHA, why stop
>>> there? Why allow music? Music loud enough to dance to
>>> causes damage to the ear drum of anyone in the area
>>> for more than a few hours. Should moderate dancing
>>> music be banned too for a safe and healthy workplace
>>> for the bartender and DJ?
>>>
>>> You have abandoned common sense with your "make no
>>> assumptions" philosophy.
>>>
>>> And just out of curiosity, what are the OSHA
>>> regulations regarding working safely with alligators?
>>>
>>>
>>> Take Care,
>>>
>>> Donovan J Arnold
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Julie C <joodge at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Donald Arnovan wrote:
>>>
>>> I am sorry I called you Ms. Carscallen. No insult was
>>> intended.
>>>
>>> And why would that be insulting??
>>>
>>> It's not an insult, but an example of Mr. Arnovan
>>> jumping to every conclusion possible.
>>>
>>> I am a bit confused however, as to why you think
>>> people trying to kill you is not considered an unsafe
>>> and unhealthy environment. Perhaps we just have a
>>> different interpretation of safe and healthy.
>>>
>>>
>>> Because THAT IS THE JOB.
>>>
>>> If I got a job as an alligator tamer, I would not
>>> expect that to be safe. But if my boss at the
>>> alligator farm was painting with lead paint....then we
>>> have a unsafe and unhealthy workplace.
>>>
>>> The OSHA portion of the labor law poster here in my
>>> office says "Occupational Safety and Health Act of
>>> 1970: You Have the Right to a Safe and Healthful
>>> Workplace" "THE OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH ACT OF
>>> 1970 ASSURES SAFE AND HEALTHFUL WORKING CONDITIONS FOR
>>> WORKING MEN AND WOMEN THROUGHOUT THE NATION. THE
>>> OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, IN THE
>>> U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, HAS THE PRIMARY
>>> RESPONSIBILITY FOR ADMINISTERING THE OSH ACT."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *~*The real voyage of discovery consists not in
>>> seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes.*~*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----Original Message Follows----
>>> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: Julie C <joodge at hotmail.com>,
>>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Safe and Healthy Workplace
>>> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 11:50:33 -0700 (PDT)
>>>
>>> Ms. Crumley,
>>>
>>> I am sorry I called you Ms. Carscallen. No insult was
>>> intended.
>>>
>>> I am a bit confused however, as to why you think
>>> people trying to kill you is not considered an unsafe
>>> and unhealthy environment. Perhaps we just have a
>>> different interpretation of safe and healthy.
>>>
>>>
>>> Take Care,
>>>
>>> Donovan J Arnold
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Julie C <joodge at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>
>>> First off, my name is Julie Crumley. Thanks. Nice
>>> example of jumping to a conclusion.
>>>
>>> And yes, it would be the goverment that "sent over
>>> 200,000 American men and women to a
>>> desert full of people trying to kill them?" You could
>>> sure come over to my house and my better half can tell
>>> you all about "people trying to kill them." That is
>>> his job, that is what they are trained to do, and paid
>>> to do...but he'll tell you his ship is smoke free!!!
>>> Safe and healthy workplace!
>>>
>>> JC
>>>
>>> JULIE CRUMLEY, thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *~*The real voyage of discovery consists not in
>>> seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes.*~*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----Original Message Follows----
>>> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: Julie C <joodge at hotmail.com>,
>>> vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Safe and Healthy Workplace
>>> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 11:17:58 -0700 (PDT)
>>>
>>> Julie Carscallen wrote,
>>>
>>> "I believe everyone has the right to a safe and
>>> healthy workplace. Actually, so does the government."
>>>
>>> Julie, would this happen to be the SAME government
>>> that sent over 200,000 American men and women to a
>>> desert full of people trying to kill them?
>>>
>>>
>>> Take Care,
>>>
>>> Donovan J Arnold
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> Donovan says:
>>>
>>> "However, no, I do not think that employees have the
>>> right to "smoke-free" work places if that is part of
>>> the job and the employer cannot pay them if they do
>>> not have customers. Do doctors have the right to be in
>>> AIDS free work spaces when doing surgery? Do Police
>>> have the right to be in a criminal free environment?
>>> Do Firemen have the right to be in fire free areas? Do
>>> teachers have the right not to be around children? Do
>>> window cleaners have the right to keep both feet on
>>> the ground? No, that is their job. They are all
>>> environmental hazards with the job they choose. You do
>>> not have the right to dictate the conditions of your
>>> job."
>>>
>>> Holy gegeez.it's not a cigarette smoking factory, it's
>>> a frfrickinbar.
>>>
>>> I believe everyone has the right to a safe and healthy
>>> workplace. Actually, so does the government. They
>>> happen to say so on the labor law poster right here
>>> next to my desk.
>>>
>>> JCJC
>>>
>>> *~*The real voyage of discovery consists not in
>>> seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes.*~*
>>>
>>>
>>> >
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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