[Vision2020] Girl Scout Cookies (was re: Doing Kai's work for him)

Tue May 24 17:01:42 PDT 2005

Donovan, you're misusing the term "discriminate."  For example, if I refuse 
to let you sit at my cafe's lunch counter because, say, you're a one-legged 
curly-haired Welsh banker, then I am guilty of discrimination -- unless my 
refusal is based on the fact that in a dozen previous visits, you've written 
obscene haiku on the counter with a Sharpie.  Then my refusal to allow you 
entrance is not an example of unfair discrimination, but of common sense -- 
the discernment and discrimination that generally prevents us from suffering 
at the hands of others time and time again.

Wayne and other Moscow citizens who object to Christ Church's behavior -- 
and I am one of them -- do so because they find that behavior, or the 
teaching behind it, objectionable.  You may not find those things 
objectionable, but it is perfectly reasonable, even honorable, to speak out 
against and expose behavior you believe to be dangerous or abhorrent.  As I 
once told Doug Wilson, when you behave badly in the public square, people 
will not find you terribly appealing and will probably point out your 
misdeeds with varying degrees of passion.  That's not persecution or 
discrimination, that's just how people are.  An unintended consequence, as 
NSAers like to say, but not bigotry.

My biggest regret is that while Wayne and others speak out against Christ 
Church, evangelical, Trinitarian, conservative Christians shrink back and 
fail to do so.  That is, to me, far more upsetting than either Christ 
Church's behavior or Wayne's reaction to it.

keely

From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
To: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Girl Scout Cookies (was re: Doing Kai's work for 
him)
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:41:14 -0700 (PDT)

Wayne touts,

"But it is my choice as a member of a free society to
ask for enforcement of the law and to do other things
toward entities with objectionable practices as
racism, homophobia, sexism, lying, cheating,
anti-democracy, theocracy, etc.  That's why I choose
to and will
continue to rail about and to expose the Christ Church
. . ."

First, might I suggest selection of a different
approach to fighting bigotry and intolerance than to
use bigotry and intolerance?

Second, you comment, "for enforcement of the law and
to do other things toward entities with objectionable
practices". So now Wayne Fox is the ultimate decider
of what is objectionable and tolerable? And the
enforcer as well? Well, I do not seem to recall the
moment that God, or the good people of Moscow, granted
you this arbitrary authority Mr. Fox. Can you please
point to the section of the Moscow City Code or the
Good Book where such authority is established?

Or is it just that you, Mr. Fox, with your morally
superior intellectual skills, naturally just take this
authority in the absence of Jesus Christ and God
Almighty himself?

Third, might I be so bold as to suggest that if you
are going to tackle bigotry that you actually tackle
the reasons behind bigotry using logic, reason, and
appeal to your fellow citizens instead of saying you
will "do other things toward entities" that say they
believe in something different then you.

Finally, let Mr. Fox's words be testimony to the fact,
that Mr. Fox is fully aware that he does what he does
knowingly, discriminating against a group of people
because they believe in a religion different from his
own. Rather then confronting arguments he disagrees
with using logical and appeal to his fellow citizens,
he chooses to instead use force and discrimination to
silence those whom he disagrees.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

It is not possible to act with discriminating.  What
is important is
the
basis of discrimination.

The world is full of tyrants, criminals, and/or
phonies.  I wish I had
the
time and aility to neutralize all of them.  I do not,
hence I must
choose
on the basis of probable success, proximity, and
egregiousness.

As Rose says in her posts:

"One cannot level one's moral lance at every evil in
the universe.
There are
just too many of them. But you can do something, and
the difference
between
doing something and doing nothing is everything."
Daniel Berrigan

 >From reading your posts over the last months, I know
this is a
difficult, if
not impossible, concept for you and certain others to
grasp.  Still
there is
hope that some begin to see the fat, green snake
lurking in the green
grass.

Take care,

Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com
--- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:

 > Donovan,
 >
 > It is not my job to enforce the law, let alone
 > equally.  The is the job of
 > government, etc.  But it is my choice as a member of
 > a free society to ask
 > for enforcement of the law and to do other things
 > toward entities with
 > objectionable practices as racism, homophobia,
 > sexism, lying, cheating,
 > anti-democracy, theocracy, etc.  That's why I choose
 > to and will continue to
 > rail about and to expose the Christ Church Cult and
 > other excrementitiously
 > parasitic organizations.  In this regard, stay
 > tuned.
 >
 > It is not possible to act with discriminating.  What
 > is important is the
 > basis of discrimination.
 >
 > The world is full of tyrants, criminals, and/or
 > phonies.  I wish I had the
 > time and ability to neutralize all of them.  I do
 > not, hence I must choose
 > on the basis of probable success, proximity, and
 > egregiousness.
 >
 > As Rose says in her posts:
 >
 > "One cannot level one's moral lance at every evil in
 > the universe. There are
 > just too many of them. But you can do something, and
 > the difference between
 > doing something and doing nothing is everything."
 > Daniel Berrigan
 >
 > From reading your posts over the last months, I know
 > this is a difficult, if
 > not impossible, concept for you and certain others
 > to grasp.  Still there is
 > hope that some begin to see the fat, green snake
 > lurking in the green grass.
 >
 > Take care,
 >
 > Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
 > deco at moscow.com
 >
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "Donovan Arnold"
 > <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
 > To: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>; "Vision 2020"
 > <vision2020 at moscow.com>
 > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:45 PM
 > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Girl Scout Cookies (was
 > re: Doing Kai's work for
 > him)
 >
 >
 > > Wayne Fox writes:
 > >
 > > "I am personally glad that "Girl Scout Cookies are
 > not
 > > really made with real Girl Scouts."
 > >
 > > Thanks for that clarification Wayne. We would
 > > certainly not want people going around thinking
 > that
 > > Wayne Fox wanted Girl Scouts in his cookies.
 > Heavens
 > > to Betsy no!
 > >
 > > "Donovan sounds like one those wonderful people
 > who
 > > nonchalantly stand around when someone is being
 > beaten
 > > and raped or an old lady is being mugged."
 > >
 > > Yeap, you got me Wayne! That is exactly what I do.
 > I
 > > sometimes participate in a beating too. Especially
 > if
 > > it involves old ladies, leather boots, kittens and
 > any
 > > kind of rope that stretches.
 > >
 > > "I am sorry he does not believe in equal
 > > protection/application of the law, that he is OK
 > with
 > > unfair tax assessment/collection practices,
 > violations
 > > of zoning codes that adversely affect many of
 > those
 > > the codes were originally designed to protect,
 > etc."
 > >
 > > And Wayne DOES! That is why he is going to hire a
 > > lawyer and sue the UI for "unequal
 > > protection/application of the law, unfair tax
 > > assessment/collection practices, and violations of
 > > zoning codes that adversely affect many of those
 > the
 > > codes were originally designed to protect, etc."
 > >
 > > He is going to do this because otherwise he would
 > look
 > > like a jackass saying this is all about equal
 > > enforcement of the law and not doing anything
 > about
 > > enforcing the law equally.
 > >
 > > We all know this is not about unjustly going after
 > > Christ Church because, well if it was, there would
 > be
 > > a pile high of emails from Wayne Fox in the V2020
 > > archives attacking Christ Church. And we all know
 > > there is not. Instead we will read lots of emails
 > > about how people are violating the city zoning
 > codes
 > > and Wayne's concern for the law.
 > >
 > > Right Wayne? Don't cha worry, lots of people are
 > > buying the line that this is about the law. Keep
 > > piling it higher and higher and use brighter and
 > > brighter colors and maybe even I will believe you.
 > >
 > > Take Care,
 > >
 > > Donovan J Arnold
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > --- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:
 > >
 > >> Donovan writes:
 > >>
 > >> "But sadly enough, if we were to employ the
 > >> Rose/Saundra tactics against the Girl Scouts we
 > >> would find something. I am sure if we followed
 > this
 > >> tactic and  hired a lawyer, harassed every Girl
 > >> Scout, and combed through every law in the state,
 > >> county and city we would find something. Perhaps
 > we
 > >> would pin them with false advertising. Because I
 > >> know for fact that Girl Scout cookies are not
 > really
 > >> made with real Girl Scouts and it says "Girl
 > Scout
 > >> Cookies" right on the box!"
 > >>
 > >> I am personally glad that "Girl Scout Cookies are
 > >> not really made with real Girl Scouts."
 > Cannibalism
 > >> is not to my taste.
 > >>
 > >> Donovan sounds like one those wonderful people
 > who
 > >> nonchalantly stand around when someone is being
 > >> beaten and raped or an old lady is being mugged.
 > >>
 > >> I am sorry he does not believe in equal
 > >> protection/application of the law, that he is OK
 > >> with unfair tax assessment/collection practices,
 > >> violations of zoning codes that adversely affect
 > >> many of those the codes were originally designed
 > to
 > >> protect, etc.
 > >>
 > >> Thomas Jefferson wrote:  Eternal vigilance is the
 > >> price of liberty.
 > >>
 > >> I admire the skill, energy, and tenacity of Rose
 > and
 > >> Saundra is pursuing those who intentionally seek
 > to
 > >> cheat and, worse yet, to rule and to control the
 > >> lives of the rest of us.  In my opinion, this
 > county
 > >> would be a lot better off with more Saundras and
 > >> Roses and a lot fewer Donovans.
 > >>
 > >> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
 > >> deco at moscow.com
 > >>
 > >>
 > >>
 > >>
 > >> ----- Original Message -----
 > >> From: "Donovan Arnold"
 > >> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
 > >> To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>;
 > >> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
 > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:04 AM
 > >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Girl Scout Cookies (was
 >
=== message truncated ===

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