[Vision2020] Doing Kai's work for him

[Donovan Arnold]

J writes,

"I could care less if they were this church or that
one"

Come’ on! You really expect us to believe you really
care about what other churches and non-profits are
doing? Are you going after Girl Scouts of America for
not paying taxes on their cookies (I really like the
mint ones best)? Or how about going after the UI for
skipping out on taxes on parking permits and being in
the wrong zoning district? I doubt it. 

You and a handful of others on here have done nothing
but make part-time/full-time jobs out of looking for
things that Christ Church and NSA have done wrong.
Even to the point of causing vandalism! And no I am
not going to paw through the V2020 archives to prove
my point. 

I am not saying that I am not guilty of bigotry
against NSA and Christ Church. Of course I am. I
disagree with many of their teachings. But I am not
BLINDED with rage and hatred. To judge all people at
NSA and Christ Church the same without knowing them is
as bigoted and as foul as judging all members of the
Mormon Church, all Catholics, all Jews, or all Muslims
the same based on what their religious leaders preach.
They are all individuals that deserve to be treated as
such like any other member of the community.

I may not regard Doug Wilson as a man I would attend
church with. However, members of Christ Church are not
keying my car, vandalizing my property, littering on
my sidewalk, letting their dogs lose on my garbage
cans, playing loud music in the middle of the night
when I am trying to sleep, or blowing cigarette smoke
through my living room window. In effect, they do not
bother me nearly as much as many other people in this
community.    

Much ado has been made about the comments of Doug
Wilson. I ask, WHO CARES? It is absolutely ridiculous
how people want to destroy the lives of anyone who so
much as buys a cup of coffee from Brucer's or says
"Hi" to Paul Kimmell. “Why?” I ask. Is your hatred and
boredom run that deep? Can I not buy a sandwich from
Co-Op and coffee from Brucer’s to go with it without
being branded a liberal or a Kirker? 

Now people are saying NSA and CC are not even donating
back to the community or that it is not enough???

THAT IS BS! Who are you to say that donating blood
(life) is not enough? Who are YOU to say that giving
people the education to stay off the streets and take
care of their family is not enough? You are nobody to
say such a thing. We are not privy to how much money
the members of Christ Church give to charities or
organizations. So to proclaim such a statement as they
do not give is the height of arrogance.

Unless you have undeniable evidence that you
contribute more money and resources then the members
of Christ Church you are a hypocrite for attacking
them for their donations and community service.

There are many things that can be said about Christ
Church that we can disagree with. And trust me, I do!
Most of us do. But lying about Christ Church or NSA to
make others hate them for what they are NOT doing is
wrong. To spend huge amount of resources dividing our
community over the religious beliefs of any group of
people is wrong, pointless, and destructive to our
community. 

Please stop dividing our community over religion. This
has gone too far. No church can stand up to the level
of criticism and standards that are placed on NSA and
Christ Church at this point. The community would never
agree on any single religion.

I welcome debate about the teachings of CC, but in a
respectful and productive manner. Not one that rips
our community apart. No revenge against any Church is
worth this much hatred and destruction of the
community. Moscow deserves better.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold


Mr. Ted;

You state, correctly in my opinion, that profit
organizations that pay 
taxes 
is a way for them to help support the community that
they are supported 
by.  
Non-profits such as churches, etc. usually also give
back to the 
community 
by way of charity benefits/donations, openings,
gallary shows, and in 
the 
case of churches - especially in this community - they
give back to the 
community by way of assistance to the poor and/or
needy in ways that 
far 
out-weigh what taxes some pay...such as food/clothing
banks, energy 
assistance, gas assistance, day care, education, and
so on.

Christ Church, on the other hand, does not take part
in any of those 
activities.  Oh, sure they "volunteer" their building
two/three times a 
year 
for the blood bank, but so do other places such as the
MSD, other 
churches, 
and so on.  Christ Church has refused to take part in
the food bank 
simply 
because the food bank accepts federal monies and
foods.  But neither do 
they 
have one of their own open to the public.  Rather,
they help the people 
in 
their church THEY feel are in need.  I am not
down-playing that, I'm 
just 
stating a fact.  It is not, however, without a lecture
and demand of 
attending or at least reading books on how to better
manage your 
family's 
finances so you don't get into a position of being
needy again.  No, I 
am 
not saying that is totally a bad thing either; what I
am saying is that 
there are circumstances that can not be helped and
being called a 
"slacker" 
by people you turn to for help - does not help.

Restricting the expansion of a church owned business
that first sneaks 
into 
down town and THEN applies for permits needs to be
examined and is a 
good 
thing and the responsible thing to do.  It was my
impression that the 
church 
should be able to hold itself up to the light and be
clean.  CC can not 
do 
that when they continue to impose themselves into
areas they are not 
allowed 
and may not be welcomed (such as residential areas
that are not zoned 
for 
ANY kind of business much less a school or college.)

I could care less if they were this church or that one
- if it is doing 
something behind the scenes and then crying "foul"
when caught - they 
deserve to be held up for public comment and
discipline.  THAT is what 
is 
going on with CC, despite what some people would have
the community 
believe.
--- J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Mr. Ted;
> 
> You state, correctly in my opinion, that profit
> organizations that pay taxes 
> is a way for them to help support the community that
> they are supported by.  
> Non-profits such as churches, etc. usually also give
> back to the community 
> by way of charity benefits/donations, openings,
> gallary shows, and in the 
> case of churches - especially in this community -
> they give back to the 
> community by way of assistance to the poor and/or
> needy in ways that far 
> out-weigh what taxes some pay...such as
> food/clothing banks, energy 
> assistance, gas assistance, day care, education, and
> so on.
> 
> Christ Church, on the other hand, does not take part
> in any of those 
> activities.  Oh, sure they "volunteer" their
> building two/three times a year 
> for the blood bank, but so do other places such as
> the MSD, other churches, 
> and so on.  Christ Church has refused to take part
> in the food bank simply 
> because the food bank accepts federal monies and
> foods.  But neither do they 
> have one of their own open to the public.  Rather,
> they help the people in 
> their church THEY feel are in need.  I am not
> down-playing that, I'm just 
> stating a fact.  It is not, however, without a
> lecture and demand of 
> attending or at least reading books on how to better
> manage your family's 
> finances so you don't get into a position of being
> needy again.  No, I am 
> not saying that is totally a bad thing either; what
> I am saying is that 
> there are circumstances that can not be helped and
> being called a "slacker" 
> by people you turn to for help - does not help.
> 
> Restricting the expansion of a church owned business
> that first sneaks into 
> down town and THEN applies for permits needs to be
> examined and is a good 
> thing and the responsible thing to do.  It was my
> impression that the church 
> should be able to hold itself up to the light and be
> clean.  CC can not do 
> that when they continue to impose themselves into
> areas they are not allowed 
> and may not be welcomed (such as residential areas
> that are not zoned for 
> ANY kind of business much less a school or college.)
> 
> I could care less if they were this church or that
> one - if it is doing 
> something behind the scenes and then crying "foul"
> when caught - they 
> deserve to be held up for public comment and
> discipline.  THAT is what is 
> going on with CC, despite what some people would
> have the community believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: tbertruss at aol.com
> >To: curley at turbonet.com, editor at lataheagle.com,
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Doing Kai's work for him
> >Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 00:47:39 -0400
> >
> >
> >Mike et. al.
> >
> >Thanks for your clarification about property
> taxation in Moscow.  Perhaps 
> >the tax exempt status of NSA is a separate legal
> issue from the CBD zoning 
> >code.  But nonetheless I know of property tax
> paying citizens in Moscow who 
> >view the expansion of tax exempt entities in the
> downtown core, which does 
> >feature some rather expensive property (for
> Moscow), as a cause for 
> >concern.  The expansion of such entities means
> other property tax paying 
> >citizens in effect pay for certain publicly funded
> services that the tax 
> >exempt entities are not paying for.
> >
> >I think the logic of this involves the idea that a
> tax exempt entity is 
> >doing some "good" for the community that somehow
> offsets the fact they are 
> >not paying property tax.  You listed museums, art
> galleries and public 
> >offices.  There may be disagreement on the "good"
> some of these entities do 
> >that justifies their tax exemption, but the
> assumption is made they are 
> >doing a "good" which offsets the fact they are not
> paying property tax.
> >
> >The tax exempt status of religious entities has
> traditionally been viewed, 
> >I think, with this kind of logic in mind.  Religion
> is not a profit 
> >oriented business, but an institution that provides
> for an important human 
> >need, thus the tax exemption.  Of course the tax
> exempt status of many 
> >churches in the USA is very controversial with the
> political activism 
> >inherent in their conduct, political activity which
> is not supposed to be 
> >happening with the granting of their tax exemption
> as a religious entity.
> >
> >If you have studied this issue, you know that in
> some cities in the USA 
> >there have been restrictions placed upon how much
> property can be placed 
> >into tax exempt status due to association with a
> religion.  I think in part 
> >this is just simple economics.  The cities cannot
> afford to place a large 
> >bulk of valuable property into a property tax
> exempt status.
> >
> >Moscow may not have had to face such a problem, but
> we do not know the 
> >future.
> >
> >Thanks for your input.
> >
> >Ted Moffett
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Michael Curley <curley at turbonet.com>
> >To: editor at lataheagle.com; vision2020 at moscow.com;
> Tbertruss at aol.com
> >Sent: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:20:32 -0700
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Doing Kai's work for him
> >
> >
> >Ted and Kai:
> >
> >As a  PS to my prior post to Kai, I would add:
> >
> >I don't think the issues have anything to do with
> tax status.  In
> >fact NSA is income tax exempt, but the building has
> been ruled to be
> >taxable for Latah County property tax purposes.
> >Many uses are permitted downtown (and elsewhere in
> town) that are tax-
> >exempt.  The alternative high school is tax exempt.
>  Museums, art
> >galleries, and public offices--all allowed
> downtown--might be tax
> >exempt (from both income and property taxes).
> >It doesn't matter where a tax exempt entity locates
> as far as taxes
> >are concerned (except perhaps in the Research
> Technology Office
> >zone).  If a public library occupies a $1 million
> building, it
> >doesn't matter if it's downtown or somewhere else
> in the city that it
> >is legally permitted.  The city "loses" (actually,
> just does not
> >collect) the same amount of property tax either
> way.  The city does
> >not receive any sales tax from any entity, nor of
> course, any income
> >tax.
> >
> >Again, I do not know what was in the heart of each
> Council member at
> >the time the downtown zoning code was passed, but
> it makes sense to
> >me that the distinction between commercial schools
> and other schools
> >related to the "commercial" and personal
> service/retail nature of
> >commercial schools rather than any tax exempt
> issue.
> >
> >Mike Curley
> >
> >
> >
> 
=== message truncated ===



		
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