[Vision2020] Re: Schizophrenic

Thu May 5 08:57:30 PDT 2005

Yes Carl. The first thing that pops into people's mind
when they see Carl is, WOW!, What a beautiful
brunette. :) I am sure that is the only reason he was
hired for the Auntie Establishment Show. 

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

--- Carl Westberg <carlwestberg846 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Donovan writes: " People do not like to be referred
> to by the color of their 
> hair..".  It's true.  I'm so tired of being referred
> to as "that guy with 
> the beautiful brown hair."  Thanks, Donovan.        
>                         
>                                                     
>                         
>                                                     
>                         
>                                                     
>                         
>            Carl Westberg Jr.
> 
> >From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> >To: Pat Kraut <pkraut at moscow.com>, vision2020
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Schizophrenic
> >Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 08:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Ms. Kraut,
> >
> >I am afraid you are missing the argument being made
> >here. I am not talking about THE terms used to
> >describe people. What I am talking about is
> referring
> >to people by their disability or a problem that
> they
> >have.
> >
> >Just as people do not like to be referred to by
> their
> >color of their hair, people with disabilities do
> not
> >like to be referred to by their disability.
> >
> >If someone is in a wheel chair they do not like it
> >when people refer to them as the wheelchair person,
> or
> >the person with no legs, or the lady that cannot
> walk.
> >No, they, like you and me, liked to be called by
> their
> >name. People do not like to be referred to and
> defined
> >by their problems, disabilities, or a situation
> that
> >they are in. Reducing people and defining people to
> >their problems is insulting and disrespectful.
> >
> >Referring to everybody by their name except people
> >with a disability is a form of social exclusion.
> >
> >People are not their hair color, weight, skin
> color,
> >problems and disabilities. People are more then
> this.
> >
> >Take Care,
> >
> >Donovan J Arnold
> >
> >--- Pat Kraut <pkraut at moscow.com> wrote:
> >
> > > You are taking this much too personally. People
> can
> > > say all sorts of things
> > > and it does not demean all mentally ill people.
> It
> > > is a term...just another
> > > thing to call people. Relax, take deep breathes
> it
> > > isn't that important. My
> > > mother was certain communitys 'crazy lady' and
> the
> > > only mentally ill person
> > > that many people knew. She took college classes
> and
> > > expanded her sphere of
> > > influence for 'crazy' actions. Mentally ill
> people
> > > say and do things that
> > > are talked about and held up to ridicule because
> > > they are 'crazy'. It has
> > > nothing to do with who you or I are.
> > > PK
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Donovan Arnold"
> > > <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> > > To: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>;
> "vision2020"
> > > <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 8:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Schizophrenic
> > >
> > >
> > > Pat,
> > >
> > > I am sorry to hear that you had to go through
> the
> > > experience of watching someone close suffer from
> > > Schizophrenia. I have also had that experience.
> I
> > > have
> > > also worked with individuals that have
> > > schizophrenia.
> > > I have seen the toll and toil that it can take
> on a
> > > person and their family. It is enough to break
> apart
> > > even the strongest and most resilient of
> families.
> > > You
> > > are a strong person for surviving that
> experience.
> > >
> > > However, referring to people as "the resident
> > > schizophrenic" is discriminatory and derogatory,
> > > even
> > > if the diagnosis is medically correct. People
> are
> > > not
> > > their disability, and communities are not
> assigned
> > > quotas of people with a mental illness. Your
> mother
> > > was not your community's schizophrenic. She was
> your
> > > mother. And a person who had a disability and
> > > deserved
> > > respect.
> > >
> > > Take Care,
> > >
> > > Donovan J Arnold
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Pat Kraut <pkraut at moscow.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I got it from a life of living with someone
> > > > diagnosed as a paranoid
> > > > Schizophrenic. This is a term used only since
> the
> > > > 1970's or so. Before that
> > > > they said that the reason my mother was so
> much
> > > > trouble was because the
> > > > 'family had problems'. If you've ever tried to
> > > live
> > > > with someone delusional
> > > > it definitely can make for family problems.
> These
> > > > diagnosis were much more
> > > > accurate after they could really examine the
> brain
> > > > and body chemistry and
> > > > have changed many times through the years.
> Another
> > > > change will only confuse
> > > > the issues more. It was a very interesting
> time.
> > > The
> > > > truly mentally ill live
> > > > in a very lonely private world that no one
> else
> > > can
> > > > really get into. My
> > > > mother recently died still living in that very
> > > > private world. Doug's
> > > > conspiracies were his own and coldhearted
> logic
> > > > helped the rest of us on
> > > > Vision 2020 to see the illogical side of his
> > > > arguments. Yes, I would say he
> > > > was the resident of Vision 2020's
> Schizophrenic,
> > > > Donovan. On the other hand
> > > > when it comes to paranoia there are some
> others
> > > who
> > > > recently can certainly
> > > > come close.
> > > > Just saw an advertisement for the new
> 'Frontline'
> > > > that is going to show some
> > > > of the issues dealing with this issue. Should
> be a
> > > > very complicated program
> > > > because it is that kind of a problem.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "cjs" <cjs at turbonet.com>
> > > > To: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> > > > Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:32 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Schizophrenic
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pat - where did you get your doctorate?
> 
=== message truncated ===

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