[Vision2020] Re: Schizophrenic

Wed May 4 21:33:06 PDT 2005

You are taking this much too personally. People can say all sorts of things
and it does not demean all mentally ill people. It is a term...just another
thing to call people. Relax, take deep breathes it isn't that important. My
mother was certain communitys 'crazy lady' and the only mentally ill person
that many people knew. She took college classes and expanded her sphere of
influence for 'crazy' actions. Mentally ill people say and do things that
are talked about and held up to ridicule because they are 'crazy'. It has
nothing to do with who you or I are.
PK

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
To: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>; "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Schizophrenic

Pat,

I am sorry to hear that you had to go through the
experience of watching someone close suffer from
Schizophrenia. I have also had that experience. I have
also worked with individuals that have schizophrenia.
I have seen the toll and toil that it can take on a
person and their family. It is enough to break apart
even the strongest and most resilient of families. You
are a strong person for surviving that experience.

However, referring to people as "the resident
schizophrenic" is discriminatory and derogatory, even
if the diagnosis is medically correct. People are not
their disability, and communities are not assigned
quotas of people with a mental illness. Your mother
was not your community's schizophrenic. She was your
mother. And a person who had a disability and deserved
respect.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

--- Pat Kraut <pkraut at moscow.com> wrote:

> I got it from a life of living with someone
> diagnosed as a paranoid
> Schizophrenic. This is a term used only since the
> 1970's or so. Before that
> they said that the reason my mother was so much
> trouble was because the
> 'family had problems'. If you've ever tried to live
> with someone delusional
> it definitely can make for family problems. These
> diagnosis were much more
> accurate after they could really examine the brain
> and body chemistry and
> have changed many times through the years. Another
> change will only confuse
> the issues more. It was a very interesting time. The
> truly mentally ill live
> in a very lonely private world that no one else can
> really get into. My
> mother recently died still living in that very
> private world. Doug's
> conspiracies were his own and coldhearted logic
> helped the rest of us on
> Vision 2020 to see the illogical side of his
> arguments. Yes, I would say he
> was the resident of Vision 2020's Schizophrenic,
> Donovan. On the other hand
> when it comes to paranoia there are some others who
> recently can certainly
> come close.
> Just saw an advertisement for the new 'Frontline'
> that is going to show some
> of the issues dealing with this issue. Should be a
> very complicated program
> because it is that kind of a problem.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "cjs" <cjs at turbonet.com>
> To: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 1:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Schizophrenic
>
>
> Pat - where did you get your doctorate?
>
> Phil
>
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Pat Kraut" pkraut at moscow.com
> Date: Wed,  4 May 2005 11:08:51 -0700
> To: "vision2020" vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Schizophrenic
>
> > Donovan: I thought the reference to Doug and this
> illness was most
> > appropriate. He was very delusional and paranoid
> about certain groups and
> > the government. His posts and what I know of him
> away from vision 2020 fit
> > very well in this diagnosis. Yes, way too many
> people think it is some
> sort
> > of split personality because this was the term
> many years ago but that is
> > now called bi-polar. I am well aware of
> Schizophrenia and what it does to
> > families and I am also somewhat aware of Doug's
> problems. He was very ill
> > and I am sure that his family is struggling.
> Thanks for the lesson.
> > PK
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Donovan Arnold"
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> > To: <joanopyr at earthlink.net>;
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:06 AM
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Schizophrenic
> >
> >
> > "who was once our resident schizophrenic."--Joan
> Opyr
> >
> > This is the third time in the last few months that
> I
> > have heard the term "schizophrenic" used in a
> > derogatory manner.
> >
> > Let me explain something to people that do this
> and
> > obviously do not know people struggling with it.
> > Schizophrenia is a REAL mental illness. It has
> nothing
> > to do with split personality. Nor does it strike
> > people because they are bad people. It is caused
> by
> > the slow deterioration of parts of the brain.
> There is
> > no cure for it. It is a mental illness that is
> very
> > challenging to those that have it.
> >
> > Many thousands of families have to deal with the
> pain
> > and mental anguish of watching someone close to
> them
> > get worse and worse and not being able to do
> anything
> > about it. It is even worse when you watch it in
> > children and young adults.
> >
> > I do not care your background, education, or
> > experience. When you use the term schizophrenic in
> a
> > derogatory and offense term you are hurting more
> then
> > just the person you are targeting and publicly
> > humiliating many people with a real disability
> that is
> > life threatening and challenging.
> >
> > I ask that people to please STOP doing this.
> >
> > Take Care,
> >
> > Donovan J Arnold
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "joanopyr at earthlink.net"
> <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ladies and Gentlemen of Vision 2020,
> > >
> > > Those of us who have been on this list for a few
> > > years will remember poor Doug Stambler, who was
> once
> > > our resident schizophrenic.  Mr. Stambler posted
> > > ten, twenty, or thirty times per day --
> incoherent,
> > > rambling, paranoid conspiracy theories.  He saw
> all;
> > > he knew all; he could predict all.  (He was also
> > > heavy with the libel and the capitalization.)
> There
> > > was no reasoning with Doug Stambler, and no
> > > reasonable conversation was possible either with
> him
> > > or around him.  LIke a drunk on a city bus, he
> spent
> > > all day every day vomiting on the regular
> commuters.
> > >  In short, he was hopelessly disruptive.  Those
> of
> > > us who got the wise idea of adding him to our
> "block
> > > sender" lists soon found that Mr. Stambler had
> > > bypassed them by changing his email addresses
> > > rapidly and at random.  The question soon arose
> of
> > > what to do: should he barred from Vision 2020?
> And
> > > if so, by whom?
> > >
> > > In the end, we decided as one (though Mr.
> Stambler
> > > was frankly many) to ignore him.
> > >
> > > It is now clear that we have not one but two new
> > > Doug Stamblers on Vision 2020.  I intend from
> here
> > > on out to ignore them.  When they change their
> email
> > > addresses, I'll simply update my block sender
> list.
> > > I will not respond to their posts; I will not be
> > > provoked.  I can only recommend that my fellow
> > > Visionaries do the same.  Don't feed a stray dog
> if
> > > you want it to go away.
> > >
> > > 'Ere long we will again have productive
> > > conversations on this list.  As soon as I regain
> my
> > > own equilibrium, I intend to be part of them.
> In
> > > the meantime, I'll reminisce about the time
> Crazy
> > > Charlie barfed into my Aunt Colleen's pocketbook
> on
> > > a Capital Area Transit Bus in Raleigh, North
> > > Carolina.  Sic transit gloria.
> > >
> > > Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
> > > www.auntie-establishment >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________
>
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