[Vision2020] Wayne's challengeD

[Donovan Arnold]

Wayne,

You proclaim erroneously, "You claim that I am like a
hate group:"

I never claimed that you were like a hate group,
Wayne. What I said was, "You just as easily fit into
the definition of a hate group as Christ Church
according to the definition of your referenced
website:"

I never said I agreed with the definition. So there is
no need to panic and try to defend yourself unless you
feel you are in fact like hate group. 

But you do try to silence Christ Church. You try to
limit their rights. You try to divide this community
on religious ideology. You do not tolerate Christ
Church's right to rent a facility and be left in
peace.

You constantly slander them with statements like
saying they advocate vigilante killing of homosexuals.
And you try to compare them to people and groups that
do commit vigilante violence and murder against
Blacks, Jews, and Gays.

In my eyes, you are full of bitterness and obsessed
with Christ Church and Doug Wilson. And to the point
any article you read or anything negative in society
you attempt a direct or indirectly link to them.

You also squabbled, "Again you libel/slander using no
facts, just lies."

"Libel", "Slander", "no facts"!?! Perhaps you have me
confused with Joan, Rose, Saundra, Hansen, Tim, Keely,
and yourself.

This libel, slander, and having no facts has never
stopped "Fox & Friends" from forming the bases of
their arguments before! Why should anyone else be
denied these tools for their arguments?

Even your premise, Mr. Fox, that I said you were "like
a hate group" was not based on fact and is a lie.  Few
of your arguments are based on facts. They are based
on bigotry and ignorance, as usual. 

Finally, no, Mr. Fox, I will not entertain you by
getting into a conversation about your immature and
logically "challenged" question of if I would set up a
 victim to be violated by members of the Aryan
Nations. That is a violation of individual rights.
Individual rights to control our own bodies are not
ignored or trumped by the religious rights of another.
"Your right to swing your fist stops at the other
fellow's nose." --Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jurist.

If someone is unable to recognize the difference
between the actions of the Aryan Nations and the words
of Christ Church, perhaps the only real explanation is
stupidity.  

Donovan J Arnold




 

--- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:

> Donovan,
> 
> Again you libel/slander using no facts, just lies.
> 
> You claim that I am like a hate group:
> 
> "Hate groups usually share these views:
>  
> 
>     * They want to limit the rights of certain
> groups
> and separate society along racial, religious or
> ethnic
> lines.
> 
>     * They are anitgovernment.
> 
>     * They try to silence the opposition
> 
>     * They believe in conspiracies."
> 
> It should have been clear to rational, open-minded
> person from my last post that I do none of these
> things.  
> 
> [1]    I specifically laud the rights of freedom of
> expression and to redress form civil/criminal
> grievance.  Where do I seek to separate society
> along any lines, except along the lines of debate
> and discussion?  But, I do seek to enervate the
> financial resources of Christ Church, just as you do
> to the Republican Party.  Such actions are part of
> freedom of expression and I might add, common sense.
> 
> [2]    I am definitely not anti-government, but I am
> critical of the way some of it operates.
> 
> [3]    I have not tried to silence the Christ Church
> Cult.  On the contrary, I have tried to encourage
> them to make more of their views public and engage
> in debate/comment.  The more the public learns about
> the cult, the better.
> 
> [4]    I don't believe in any hidden Christ Church
> conspiracies.  Their agenda and plans are quite well
> publicized, especially by themselves.
> 
> 
> As usual, you have not responded to the arguments
> presented nor have you read or checked any of the
> references.  Maybe points are awarded in college
> debate clubs for such behavior.  In the real world
> Marketplace of Ideas, not always so.  In fact, such
> tactics in the real world, especially by political
> and religious leaders, often result in tragedy.
> 
> 
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> deco at moscow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Donovan Arnold"
> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>; "Vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Cc: "Nathan Alford Daily News" <alford at dnews.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 6:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne's challengeD
> 
> 
> > Wayne,
> > 
> > The Aryan Nations were not sued for their beliefs
> or
> > religious practices. They were sued for committing
> > violent acts against individuals. It had nothing
> to do
> > with their RELIGION, it had to with forcing their
> > beliefs on someone else that did not wish to
> > participate.
> > 
> > They have every right to practice their faith,
> values,
> > and beliefs just as any other religion. 
> > 
> > However, they cannot force their religion on
> another
> > person against their will. This rule applies to
> every
> > religion. 
> > 
> > Christ Church is not pulling people out their cars
> and
> > smashing their faces into the gravel by force with
> a
> > shot gun to the back of their head. They are not
> > saying, "Take the law into your own hands and kill
> a
> > Jew." They are not shooting at Gays with a shotgun
> in
> > downtown Spokane. They are not dragging minorities
> > into the woods and beating them up. They are not
> > hanging Black people in the arboretum. It is just
> is
> > not happening Mr. Fox! That is what the 12 members
> of
> > the Aryan Nations members were doing. 
> > 
> > You just as easily fit into the definition of a
> hate
> > group as Christ Church according to the definition
> of
> > your referenced website:
> > 
> > http://www.riskmgtonline.com/rmci_hatecrimes.html 
> > 
> > "Hate groups usually share these views:
> > 
> > 
> >    * They want to limit the rights of certain
> groups
> > and separate society along racial, religious or
> ethnic
> > lines.
> > 
> >    * They are anitgovernment.
> > 
> >    * They try to silence the opposition
> > 
> >    * They believe in conspiracies."
> > 
> > Douglas Stambler would be proud that you finally
> see
> > things his way, Mr.Fox.
> > 
> > Donovan J Arnold
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
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