[Vision2020] an open letter -- What's That? Are you serious?

[Donovan Arnold]

Mr. Meyer,

You once said that when people exaggerate their claims
it destroys the creditability of their complaint. I
agree with that statement and I believe it is
applicable to your statements regarding Christ Church.


First, when someone is asked to find evidence that Mr.
Wilson said to kill all Homosexuals and they choose to
instead quote someone else, this should tell you
something. 

Second, you wrote, "I guess by your statements you
find Doug Wilson's writings fairly well within
Christian norm,"

No, I do not. But I do support his First Amendment
Rights.

"As for Greg's writings, there is little ambiguity
there. Would you admit his views are extreme?"

It does not matter how extreme his views are or are
not. They are still protected by the First Amendment.
The US Constitution does not say, Freedom of Speech
except in cases when the content of the speech many be
controversial or offensive to others. 

"Doug Wilson actually supports Greg's views or he
would not have published it."

Is this a rule written somewhere that Mr. Wilson and
the other editors must all agree on every submission
to the magazine for it to be published? Is it not
possible for Wilson to allow others to express their
views or the other editors to override him? Is it
possible that Mr. Wilson did not even read it?

"Greg did not develop his theory in a vacuum. Do you
think the idea must have originated with church
teachings? with Doug? That would be my guess."

It is not possible for Greg Dickison to come up with
his own demented ideas about God and the Bible? I
would think it is possible. He did manage to get
through law school without Doug Wilson. Maybe it is
possible for him to read the Bible and have his own
interpretations without a mind meld with Mr. Wilson. 

"here we have an organ of the church publicly saying 
that certain biblical based crimes are punishable by
death and that in the face of those crimes, it would
be a sin to pity the perpetrator."

So Mr. Wilson's must either silence all members of the
Church or automatically endorse anything they say? I
would tend to to believe there might be some middle
ground here. Mr. Dickison is not an ordained minister
of the Church. So he can not be speaking on their
behalf. If Mr. Dickison was ordained by the Church
that would be reason to counter what he said. 

"Is Greg Dickison's writing actually an incitement to
violence? I would say that perhaps it is."

That is highly speculative. Was anything in his
statement saying to go out and kill people? Has anyone
been killed, injured, or otherwise violated as a
result of Mr. Dickison stating his opinion and
beliefs? I see no such evidence.

"Do you think it possible that someone might take it
upon themselves to "faithfully execute justice,"
especially after being indoctrinated regularly in
church and from elementary school through college?"

I suppose anything is possible. But I do not think
that Christ Church is preaching for people to kill
homosexuals, adulterers, and others in a vigilante
way. Wilson has even said on his sight that he does
not believe Homosexuals should be killed. So I think
anyone raised by Christ Church would not kill or
injure homosexuals on the bases of the their
teachings.   

"You are familiar with Matthew Shepard?

Was Mr. Shepard killed for religious reasons? Was
Christ Church involved in the killing of Matthew
Shepard? Sounds to me like you want to judge people
not involved in the incident. Why not blame Catholics,
Jews, and Muslims as well? Or how about the publishing
companies that print King James Bible? I blame the
kids that killed him, that is who I blame, they were
the ones that made that decision and committed a
crime, not some guy in another state. 

"Need I remind you of the University of Idaho drama
student that was kidnapped in Moscow, Idaho and then
EXILED to his snowy DEATH far out of town on a winters
night about five years ago?"

Are you aware that the parents stated that they
believed that it had nothing to do with his sexual
orientation?

But again, I find your words disingenuous. There is NO
link whatsoever between transgressions against
Homosexuals and Christ Church. If you believe that
there are, you need to contact the Attorney General
and  present him with the evidence. Otherwise you are
being slanderous in accusing people of capital crimes
without proof. Can I say you are a murderer? A rapist?
Or would that just be wrong? I think it would be.

Your critical logical error, Mr. Meyer, is that Doug
Wilson has stated on his Blog that he does not support
death for Homosexuals. Anyone that can read can verify
this fact for themselves by going to his Blog and
reading it themselves. Saying otherwise is simply
lying and has destroyed the creditability of yourself,
and others on this subject that say he is advocating
violence and murder of homosexuals.

"To me, your voice sounds enabling rather than
helpful."

Who is the enabler Mr. Meyer? 

When people lie about what others say and believe that
hurts everybody. And I assure you that preventing
people from stating their beliefs and practicing what
they want to as long as it does not direct harm to
uniwlling parties is not hurting homosexuals. The
First Amendment is what has allowed the Gay community
to counteract lies stated about them. The First
Amendment is what has allowed Gays and Lesbians the
right to live together without interference of the
law, and to express their faith and love of their
partners.

It is not Doug Wilson and Christ Church I am
defending, it is the First Amendment. If the Community
can take away Mr. Wilson's right to practice his faith
and to live his life the way he wants, they can take
that right away from me, and any homosexual or
individual in the community. So I will continue to
defend the First Amendment as applying to everyone,
even people I disagree with.

Finally, Mr. Meyer, if you are concerned about the
rights of Gays and Lesbians, why are you not doing
something to advance their rights here in Moscow or
Latah County? Moscow and Latah still discriminate
against Gays and Lesbians in employment, protection,
and property rights. Or does your concern only run so
deep as to when it affords you the opportunity to
blame someone else for their discrimination? It is,
after all, easier to blame others for injustices
against people rather than taking the responsibility
of positive changes in the law to end it. 


Donovan J Arnold  






--- Jim Meyer <m1e2y3e4 at moscow.com> wrote:

> Donovan,
> Now you have read both Greg Dickison's writings 
> ()
> and Doug Wilson's
> writings  
>
(http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=ArchivesByTopic&TopicID=36).
> I 
> guess by your statements you find Doug Wilson's
> writings fairly well 
> within Christian norm, that we are all sinners and
> that we all deserve 
> to die for our sins, even gasp--Doug.
> As for Greg's writings, there is little ambiguity
> there. Would you admit 
> his views are extreme?
> 
> I think the point here is that Doug Wilson is editor
> of the magazine in 
> which Greg wrote. It was approved for publication
> and it has never been 
> retracted, disavowed, or removed from the web.
> Therefore, contrary to 
> the sanitized version in his blog, Doug Wilson
> actually supports Greg's 
> views or he would not have published it. And
> furthermore, Greg did not 
> develop his theory in a vacuum. Do you think the
> idea must have 
> originated with church teachings? with Doug? That
> would be my guess.
> 
> Be that as it may, here we have an organ of the
> church publicly saying 
> that certain biblical based crimes are punishable by
> death and that in 
> the face of those crimes, it would be a sin to pity
> the perpetrator. 
> Isn't that just a bit scary to you? Is Greg
> Dickison's writing actually 
> an incitement to violence? I would say that perhaps
> it is. Of course, it 
> doesn't say to just go out and kill a sinner, but it
> does say that 
> government law is inadequate. That god demands more,
> that it would be a 
> sin to pity the perpetrator. Do you think it
> possible that someone might 
> take it upon themselves to "faithfully execute
> justice," especially 
> after being indoctrinated regularly in church and
> from elementary school 
> through college? Do the religious schools in Saudi
> Arabia and Pakistan 
> hold no lessons for you?
> 
> You are familiar with Matthew Shepard? Need I remind
> you of the 
> University of Idaho drama student that was kidnapped
> in Moscow, Idaho 
> and then EXILED to his snowy DEATH far out of town
> on a winters night 
> about five years ago? Emphatically, I am not saying
> Christ Church (or 
> any member) is responsible, but given the rhetoric,
> who knows?  As I 
> said, it is a community issue when an organization
> crosses the line and 
> potentially incites violence. Silence condones.
> Where is your voice? To 
> me, your voice sounds enabling rather than helpful.
> 
> But perhaps all this is in the past. Maybe beliefs
> and rhetoric have 
> mellowed, though the community has had little
> indication of that being 
> the case.
> 
> Jim Meyer
> 
> Donovan wrote:
> Mr. Meyer,
> 
> You made the following allegations against CCers,
> "The
> fact that  Christ Church representatives who benefit
> from tax breaks publicly support  the idea that
> whole
> groups of people are lower than them and that
> violence
> against those people is somehow god's intent IS a
> community issue"
> 
> Those are pretty serious charges Mr. Meyer!
> 
> Can you back your statement that Christ Church is
> preaching that individuals commit violence against
> other community members?
> 
> Has Christ Church, or any member(s) of Christ Church
> acting on behalf of Christ Church, EVER physically
> assault another member of this community?
> 
> 
> Donovan J Arnold
> 
> 
> 
>
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