[Vision2020] Article 9, Section 5 the State of Idaho Constitution

[Donovan Arnold]

Rose Huskey wrote:

"We urge the leaders of the Trinity Festival to
consider relocating the church service if the serving
of alcohol to minors is an important part of their
communion service."

This is discrimination. Serving alcohol to minors, as
in a tiny sip, is an important part of mass and
receiving of communion with the Holy Spirit for
billions of Christians world-wide. To state that a
religious group cannot follow this practice is a
violation of state and federal law. To suggest that a
group go elsewhere because of their religious beliefs
and practices that harm nobody is outright bigotry. 

As any person with a brain knows, anti-alcoholic
policies are established to prevent minors from being
intoxicated, hurting themselves, others hurting them,
or preventing possible brain damage or death. It is
not meant for the purposes of preventing communion.
Alcohol is not a BAD thing when taken in small doses.
Millions of children consume alcohol in communion, in
medicine, and other religious practices everyday with
positive effects. 

The Roman Catholic Church offers communion to children
starting at about the age of six. There are more
minors in the Catholic Church than there are people in
the United States.  

I am sick of people attacking the belief system of
Catholics, and other Christians on this website. You
are all ignorant fools when you attack Christ Church
for values and principles 50-80% of Americans believe
in!

Catholics believe in communion before 8 years old,
baptism just after birth, and adulthood in some cases
as early as 14. 

And Ms. J Ford, it has nothing to do with intelligence
or understanding, it has to with FAITH in a loving
God, and six year-old.

I may not agree with Wilson and his beliefs because I
do not know his beliefs and certainly know that what
anti-Christians have said on here has not all that
truthful. But I do know this:

Jesus Christ was Born of the Virgin Mary, conceived by
the Holy Spirit. He was born and lived without sin. He
suffered and died for our sins on the cross. On the
third day, He rose again and later descended into
heaven. He will come again to judge the living and the
dead. He will have mercy on those that believe in Him,
and they shall have everlasting life through him, in
him, and with him. Anyone, regardless of age, sex,
race, weight, gender, sexual orientation, occupation,
and even past sins will be saved if they just believe
that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.   

This is unquestionable fact. I think that any
Christian reading this has a moral obligation to stop
the bigotry that is oozing out of people toward Christ
Church that are also now attacking practices all
Christians hold dear. The right to practice mass, the
right to have children baptized, and the right raise
our children in the way of Christ, the way we know to
be correct. I am not going to allow non-believes, and
the friends of non-believers to hack away at my values
without a response. And I implore all those Christians
not to tolerate this behavior without response, even
among your friends, especially among your friends whom
you have influence over.

Donovan J Arnold

   

--- DonaldH675 at aol.com wrote:

> Visionaries:
>  
> There are some interesting questions facing
> University of Idaho  
> administrators and state officials, that Ms. Lund
> and I raised, have  an opinion on, but 
> are not "officially" qualified to answer.
>  
> 1.  We question why, in view of constitutional
> prohibitions, the  Trinity 
> Festival is receiving such generous donations in
> goods, services, and  rental 
> fees from the University of Idaho. The University of
> Idaho has a  published fee 
> schedule for Kibbie Dome use.  They also have a 
> disclaimer which, in effect, 
> means that rental fees are not written in stone - a 
> little pressure here, a 
> big accommodation there,  heck that great  big bill
> can be whittled down to 
> practically nothing in short  order.  (Sorry, I
> digressed.)
>  
> The published fee schedule for non-profit
> organizations (which was used,  for 
> example, to bill the 2005  Shriner Circus), is
> $100/hr or $2,000 for  a 
> twenty hour day.
>  
> Compare and contrast that charge with the four day,
> exclusive  use of the 
> Kibbie Dome by the Trinity Festival whose total four
>  day rental feel was  $3,000 
>  A problem? We think so.  Our  calculators keep
> getting $8,000 when we run 
> the numbers.
>  
> A healthy $7,150.00 "donation" to the event (in
> addition to the rental  
> break) was made possible by Conferences and Events
> which describes this  
> transaction  as "50% off" on the Financial Estimate
> attached to the Trinity  Festival 
> contract.
>  
> A problem? We think so.  And here is where the
> attorneys and  legislature, 
> and frankly, citizens get to weight in.  The Idaho 
> Constitution Article 9, 
> Section 5 is pretty clear on the point.
>  
>  
> "SECTION 5.  SECTARIAN APPROPRIATIONS PROHIBITED. 
> Neither the legislature 
> nor any county, city, town, township, school 
> district, or other public 
> corporation, shall ever make any appropriation, or
> pay  from any public fund or moneys 
> whatever, anything in aid of any church or 
> sectarian or religious society, 
> or for any sectarian or religious purpose, or to 
> help support or sustain any 
> school, academy, seminary, college, university or 
> other literary or scientific 
> institution, controlled by any church, sectarian or 
> religious denomination 
> whatsoever; nor shall any grant or donation of land,
>  money or other personal 
> property ever be made by the state, or any such
> public  corporation, to any 
> church or for any sectarian or religious purpose; 
> provided, however, that a 
> health facilities authority, as specifically
> authorized  and empowered by law, may 
> finance or refinance any private, not for profit, 
> health facilities owned or 
> operated by any church or sectarian religious 
> society, through loans, 
> leases, or other transactions."  (emphasis  added) 
>
_http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/constretr?sctid=003090905.K_
> 
>
(http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/constretr?sctid=003090905.K)
> 
>      
> If the Trinity Festival is going to use the Kibbie
> Dome, or any other state  
> owned property, they need to pay the full amount of
> the  published fee.  We 
> don't want our tax dollars subsidizing  any
> religious gatherings, not Quakers, 
> not Methodists, not  Roman Catholics, not Baptists,
> not any religious group,  
> period,  the end!  This is a foundational, textbook
> example of the separation  
> of church and state.  A new contract reflecting the
> standard  non-profit price 
> of $2000/day is required.  It would compound the 
> responsibility of the UI if 
> contractual errors of this magnitude are  allowed to
> go forward.  What answer 
> will the University of Idaho give the  tax payers on
> this question?  We are 
> eager to hear  it.   
>  
> (The Trinity Festival also has contracted to use the
> University of Idaho  
> golf course, the SUB ballroom, and the Arboretum  We
> do not know if  "donations" 
> are part of those contracts.  We hope not, but we
> intend  to find out.  
> Saundra Lund and I requested copies of all contract
> between  the University of Idaho 
> and the Trinity Festival, we have not received any 
> material regarding the 
> Trinity Festival golf tournament, the Ball, or the 
> Arboretum event.)
>  
> On Sunday morning, August 7th, a worship service is
> scheduled in the Kibbie  
> Dome.  The service includes the distribution of wine
> to faithful  members.  
> This requires, according to Board of Regent's
> policy, an alcohol  permit.  The 
> contract was signed in November, 2004.  We received
> the  records in March, 
> 2005.  The alcohol permit was not included in the
> records  we received.  Perhaps 
> Christ Church applied and received such a permit, 
> perhaps not.  
>  
> The issue Ms. Lund and I find relevant is the
> serving of alcohol to  children 
> on state owned property.  We firmly agree that
> within the confines  of a 
> worship service, if the serving of wine is part of
> the ritual, the state  should 
> not have the right to interfere.  However, when
> small children  are permitted 
> or encouraged to drink wine on state owned property
> it raises  other concerns.  
> We believe there is a question of competing  issues:
> state law forbids giving 
> alcohol to minors.  State law also  protects
> religious freedom.  Would the 
> University of Idaho overlook  violations of state
> law in the Kibbie Dome if 
> those violations were part of  the religious rituals
> of the Santeria,  
> Rastafarian, or Native  American religion (who use
> peyote in their worship)?  We doubt  
> it.  
>  
> Communion wine distribution would not be an issue if
> the worship  service was 
> held in Christ Church owned facilities.  Their
> constitutional  rights to 
> religious freedom are rightfully protected under
> those  circumstances.  We urge 
> the leaders of the Trinity Festival to consider 
> relocating the church service 
> if the serving of alcohol to minors  is an important
> part of their communion 
> service. 
>  
> Rose Huskey 
>  
>  
> >
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