[Vision2020] To Rose Husky

[Pat Kraut]

You see what a 'slippery slope' this persecution of a church is?? It just
goes on and on!
PK


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 5:13 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] To Rose Husky


I sent this offline, but seem to be blocked or more likely to be barred from
such a contact, though Rose sent me an offline message.  I am sending this
to her on V2020 because I do want her to understand why I was concerned.

From: Phil Nisbet <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
To: DonaldH675 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Marshmellows anyone?
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 4:50 PM
Rose

I note that this was not posted to V2020, so I will reciprocate.

My concern is that JCP does indeed occasionally hold Pesach Seders either
down at the Skate Park on City Ground rented for that purpose or up on
campus.  I am not aware that a liquor licences has ever been obtained, since
its a who the heck woud think to do it kind of thing for a seder dinner.

After a kid is 13, they are free to have the wine, since it is the date of
adult religious obligation.

We Jews only have a few times in the year when we have wine associated with
a religious observance, but what you call Passover (Pesach) is the big event
and one in which the observation of the ceremony requires kids to be present
and in which membership of the community is confirmed and affirmed for all
those who have reached the religious age of consent.

The weekly christian observance of 'communion' uses a mouthful of wine or a
tiny sip, which is one heck of a lot less wine than we use for Pesach.  I
assume that if you oppose the CCers use of even a mouthful of wine for those
under the age of 21, you would be forced to follow suit with JCP should we
ever hold a seder on public property.  This is particularly unfortunate,
since I think that plans exist for having a seder to which non-Jews would be
invited

I am not picking a fight with you guys on the issue of disagreement with
Doug Wilson's ideas regarding Southern Slavery.  I am not picking a fight
with you guys regarding his stand against gays.  I am disagreeing with a
tactic which tends to diminish the freedom of others while leaving the real
issues off the table.

By turning the issue into a matter of zoning complaints and communion wine,
you diminish your arguements, make them seem petty.  Further, you end up
hurting other people not involved in the dispute, including the Jewish
Community and some of the other schools that were not NSA and operating in
the downtown.

Denial that southern slavery was not a cruel and evil institution is similar
to holocaust denial.  But the way that holocaust denial has been largely
defeated is education.  If you seriously want to bring that whole edifice
down, hold a show on the realities of southern slavery, the deaths in the
slave ships and the brutal treatment accorded to slaves.  Couple that with a
challenge to debate in public with Wilson and the guys who support such
nonsense.

Beta Klarsfeld chastised I and several freinds in the JDL many years ago for
busting heads of neo-Nazis in Germany.  Her point was that Never Again is
not about beating the Aryan types with bats, its about showing how they
really are and causing the community to shun them.  She noted that beating
them to a paste was actually doing them more good than harm.  Not to long
after she harangued us on the issue, she and her husband managed to bring
Klaus Barbe to Justice in Lyon.  It did more to defang the neo-Nazis in
Germany than all the JDL actions we had ever taken.

Phil Nisbet

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