[Vision2020] Illegal underage alcohol, anyone?

[Phil Nisbet]

Tom

Actually I would have expected a better arguement from you.

A right of passage is a spiritual journey to adulthood.  As often as not 
such spirit quests are culturally defined.  The fact that drinking is 
defined as per the statuate that you cite as solely for those who are of a 
specific age, the age at which majority is attained, gets you why we have 
made drinking by underage drinking to binge levels such a problem.  The kids 
are asserting their independence and adulthood prior to the age they have 
been authorized by law to attain it.  Over indulgence is simply part of the 
statement.

I am sure that when you got back from the puddle you were fairly miffed when 
society deemed you to be not responsible enough to drink.  I know I was.  
Nothing like being a young buck Sergeant in class A's and being told that 
you can not pick up a bottle of wine to take to a get home dinner with the 
folks.  As with most, at that time I am sure you felt that you had proven 
that you were able to handle those things responsibly, as you had proven 
while serving your country.

Phil Nisbet

>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>To: "'Phil Nisbet'" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>, <Tbertruss at aol.com>
>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Illegal underage alcohol, anyone?
>Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 18:33:59 -0700
>
>Quoted from:
>
>http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=230060004.K
>
>"TITLE  23
>ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES
>CHAPTER 6
>PENAL PROVISIONS
>
>     23-604.  MINORS -- PURCHASE, CONSUMPTION OR POSSESSION PROHIBITED. Any
>person under twenty-one (21) years of age who shall purchase, attempt to
>purchase, or otherwise consume or possess any alcohol beverage, including 
>any distilled spirits, beer or wine, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and 
>shall be punished according to the schedule set out in section 18-1502, 
>Idaho Code."
>
>Nope.  Nothing about any "right of passage" or "It's OK if it ain't binge 
>drinking" there. As discussed earlier, alcoholic beverages are simply not 
>permitted in the ASUI Kibbie Activity Center.
>
>I certainly expected a stronger argument than that form you, Mr. Nisbet.
>
>If it's wrong, it's wrong.
>
>Take care, Moscow.
>
>Tom Hansen
>
>
>"I can testify to the fact that although Phil is a Republican, he is a 
>decent man, and fun to have a beer with."
>
>- Donovan J Arnold (July 11, 2005)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] 
>On Behalf Of Phil Nisbet
>Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 5:00 PM
>To: Tbertruss at aol.com
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Illegal underage alcohol, anyone?
>
>Ted
>
>You are coming on like Ms Nation's at a temperence party.  Please, put the
>hatchet down.
>
>Sips of wine are not binge drinking.
>
>Europe has less of a problem than we do with wine and beer and other 
>alcohol
>related problems.  They have less of a problem because they do not deal 
>with
>it as we do.  The culture teaches children to deal with drink from an early
>age with things like a small amount of beer or wine in soda water to form a
>spritizer.
>
>We bar kids from trying or having any liqour.  As a consequence its a
>substance that having been denied by authority, kids tend to binge on when
>they can snag some.  Those same kids then get free of mom and dad and head
>off to the nearest kegger where the try to drink the whole thing.  Thats
>because we have made booze a right of passage.
>
>If it did not have that right of passage standard, it would not be treated
>as it is in our society.  If it does not prove your adulthood, why get bent
>beyond recognition every other night?
>
>As for drugs, are you preaching toleration or total removal of all mind
>altering substances?  Is this an arguement against booze or one for other
>controled materials?
>
>Phil Nisbet
>
> >From: Tbertruss at aol.com
> >To: pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: [Vision2020] Illegal underage alcohol, anyone?
> >Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:15:29 EDT
> >
> >
> >Phil et. al.
> >
> >In 1998, "5.1 million youth" (age 12-20) "were binge drinkers."
> >
> >Fact from this link:
> >
> >http://www.health.org/govpubs/rpo990/
> >
> >It is astonishing to observe the "pass" that alcohol use receives in our
> >culture in regard to its use or promotion in cases where it is illegal.
> >
> >In terms of advertising alcohol use to youth, overlooking or excusing
> >parents
> >who have alcohol in their homes that is easily accessed by youth, or the
> >legal system offering penalties for those who supply alcohol to minors 
>that
> >make a
> >mockery of the so called "War On Drugs," alcohol is tolerated and even
> >promoted when the facts are indisputable that it damages the lives of 
>youth
> >more
> >than all other drug use combined!
> >
> >It is well known that underage alcohol abuse kills more youth in 
>vehicular
> >crashes than are killed in any circumstance by all other drugs combined,
> >but
> >consider the impact of alcohol abuse among underage drinkers for other
> >types of
> >violent crime:
> >
> >http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=13
> >
> >Quote below from link above:
> >
> >"[I]ndividuals under the age of 21 commit 45 percent of rapes, 44 percent
> >of
> >robberies, and 37 percent of other assaults,7 and it is estimated that 50
> >percent of violent crime is alcohol-related8 (Reducing Underage Drinking,
> >61)."
> >
> >Consider the NBA's family friendly message that they oppose drug 
>use/abuse.
> >Really?  Then why do NBA games watched by millions of underage viewers
> >feature
> >advertising worth millions of dollars aimed at youth to promote alcohol
> >use?
> >
> >http://camy.org/factsheets/index.php?FactsheetID=1
> >
> >Quote below from link above:
> >
> >"The Center on Alcohol Marketing and Youth found that, from 2001 though
> >2003,
> >youth in the United States were 96 times more likely per capita to see an
> >ad
> >promoting alcohol than an industry ad discouraging underage drinking.9 In
> >fact, compared to underage youth, adults age 21 and over were nearly 
>twice
> >as
> >likely per capita to see advertising discouraging underage drinking.10"
> >
> >I don't care what group, religious or not, is sponsoring an event that is
> >offering alcohol to minors, or whether the event is on private property, 
>or
> >how
> >little alcohol is being offered.  Are we to excuse the offering of a drug
> >to
> >youth, by adults who supposedly have the best interests of the youth in
> >mind,
> >that is the most likely drug by a wide margin to be the drug that youth
> >abuse
> >leading to death, injury, sexual assault, assault and battery, and 
>violent
> >crime
> >in general?  Isn't it credible to assume that offering alcohol in a
> >religious
> >service to minors sends a signal that minors drinking alcohol is 
>excusable
> >on
> >religious grounds?  And how might this "endorsement" impact a youth 
>offered
> >alcohol in other contexts, at a party by their peers, or sneaking some
> >liquor
> >from their parents stock, or driving on the back roads of Latah County 
>with
> >a
> >six pack or two?
> >
> >What if a religious group offered a harmless amount of methamphetamine to
> >minors in a religious service?  Very few would excuse this conduct, if
> >anyone,
> >correct?  And how many youth are involved in methamphetamine related 
>abuse
> >incidents, relative to alcohol abuse related incidents?  Do the facts of
> >the
> >consequences of drug abuse of various kinds motivate our approach to
> >mitigating the
> >harm from drug abuse across all segments of society, or do the biases of
> >those
> >who wish to keep their pet drug of choice (alcohol, in this case)
> >acceptable,
> >or economically profitable, prejudicially influence social/legal/economic
> >policy?
> >
> >"Alcohol is by far the most used and abused drug among America’s
> >teenagers.
> >Â According to a national survey, nearly one third (31.5%) of all high
> >school
> >students reported hazardous drinking (5+ drinks in one setting) during 
>the
> >30
> >days preceding the survey.3"
> >
> >Above quote from this source:
> >
> >http://www.marininstitute.org/Youth/alcohol_youth.htm#_edn6
> >
> >Source for info below:
> >
> >http://www.health.org/govpubs/rpo990/
> >
> >** Peer pressure begins early. One-third of 4th graders and more than 
>half
> >of
> >6th graders say they have been pressured by friends to drink alcohol.1
> >
> >** On average, young people begin drinking at about age 13,2 but some 
>start
> >even younger. By the time they are high school seniors, more than 80
> >percent
> >have used alcohol and approximately 64 percent have been drunk. 3 When
> >adolescents move on to college, they bring their drinking habits with 
>them:
> >more than
> >40 percent of college students are binge drinkers.4
> >
> >** In 1998, 10.4 million current drinkers were under legal age (age 
>12-20).
> >Of these, 5.1 million were binge drinkers, including 2.3 million heavy
> >drinkers.5
> >----------------------------
> >
> >Vision2020 Post by Ted Moffett
>
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