[Vision2020] Give the High School to NSA? Forget it!
Jim Meyer
m1e2y3e4 at moscow.com
Wed Jan 19 07:46:46 PST 2005
Mark,
I have no argument with your message in general; however, NSA has little or
no legitimacy to be put in the same sentence with the other nonprofit
entities that you mention, because unlike those other entities you mention,
NSA does not serve the public interest. Yes, I know others might disagree
and there are certainly fine points involved, a couple of which I addressed
in my note.
I believe in your goals to work together toward a common goal but all the
facts that I have prove (to me at least) that Christ Church/NSA et al has
zero concern for the community other than the community of themselves. It
would be unfortunate to let them wheedle an undeserved benefit out of the
discussion, something that seems very possible when they are mentioned in
the same breath with very reputable community activities.
It is very nice of you and broadminded to want to include them. I prefer to
reach out to people also, and in fact, I spent considerable time in direct
correspondence with the senior representative of NSA, only to be rudely
rebuffed and called a crackpot, (a moniker I apparently share with the
majority of professors at the University of Idaho). Name calling aside, no
argument given me even remotely suggested that NSA operates in the public
interest, or in any other mode than self-interest.Therefore they deserve no
public support.
And I believe everyone should be free to participate in the discussion,
including individual taxpayers that happen to belong to Christ Church/NSA.
But it would be crazy for the community to provide undeserved benefits to
Christ Church/NSA. That is my main concern.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 1:15 AM
Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 8, Issue 77
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: The War That Never Ends (Next Up: Iran) (Pat Kraut)
> 2. Fw: Get the Word Out ? with Buy Blue Gear (Joan Opyr)
> 3. RE: Give the High School to NSA? Forget it! (Mark Seman)
> 4. AURORAS! (Jasper Nance)
> 5. Re: Give the High School to NSA? Forget it! (DonaldH675 at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:40:09 -0800
> From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The War That Never Ends (Next Up: Iran)
> To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <003901c4fdf1$b8ace220$5e0bfea9 at dell>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Do you think that Iraq will have peace soon if Iran and Syria don't get
out
> of there business?? I think its a very likely that the only way to get
peace
> may be to spread the word. Don't like it all much but I sure odn't know
the
> answers either.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 7:03 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] The War That Never Ends (Next Up: Iran)
>
>
> As the death toll climbs in Iraq, the US is also focusing on Iran -
>
>
> US Commandos 'seek Iran N-bases'
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,11962742,00.html
>
>
> Iran: We can repel U.S. attack
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/18/iran.attack.reut/index.html
>
>
> And the beat goes on . . .
>
> Take care,
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are pretty, some
are
> dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors....but they all
> exist very nicely in the same box.
>
>
> _____________________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:41:30 -0800
> From: "Joan Opyr" <auntiestablishment at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: Get the Word Out ? with Buy Blue Gear
> To: "Vision2020 Moscow" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <BAY10-DAV7F5D5BC8149CB04E834DDC5800 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Blue Visionaries (Red Visionaries can ignore this message, or, if
they prefer, take it as a reverse buying guide):
>
> I'm forwarding the following from BuyBlue.org. It's a handy little guide
to where (and where not) to spend our Blue dollars. For example, the Home
Depot is evil; Moscow Building Supply is good. And, even better, Moscow
Building Supply is locally-owned, not to mention convenient. The list goes
on and on, but here -- read for yourself.
>
> Blue right down to my drawers,
> Auntie Establishment
>
> PS: Attention 49 percenters -- you voted for someone else on November 4th,
but alas, that wasn't enough. Now, George and Dick are claiming that the
50.8% who voted for them have given them a mandate to run riot over the rest
of us. Well, mandate my fanny. Half of us said no to four more years of
lies, war, bad economics, and the erosion of the wall between church and
state. Half. That's 56 million American voters. We're here; we're not
moving to Canada; and we have work to do, and that work begins this Thursday
with Bush's second mandate-free inauguration. To mark the beginning of our
brand new fight, there will be a 49% Rally this Thursday at noon in
Friendship Square. We'll have games, speakers, music from the Peace Band,
and a lovely, hand-made pine coffin on display, filled with those things
that George W. Bush and nominees like Alberto Gonzales and Michael Chertoff
would love to bury: the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, those "quaint"
Geneva Conventions and ou!
> r independent judiciary. So come one, come all! Listen to the music.
Listen to the speakers. Send a postcard to George W. Bush telling him
exactly where he can stick his mandate. And, as an added incentive, winners
of the "Pin the Lies on Bush" game will get a free sucker -- because it's
better to eat one than to be one!
>
>
> >From BuyBlue.org:
>
> Still have that Kerry bumper sticker on your car? I do too, but not for
long! Weâ?Tve got the goods and soon you will too! Itâ?Ts official. The Buy
Blue Store is open and itâ?Ts time to show your true blue colors.
>
> Buy Blue is a message that will ring true with 56+ million people. The
challenge is reaching them. Every day we spend on average 1/2 hour to hour
in our cars driving. Hereâ?Ts an opportunity to support the efforts of
buyblue.org and communicate in a very simple yet effective way. Slap a
Buyblue.org bumper sticker on your vehicle. Not into bumper stickers â?"
then slap on a car magnet or static cling window decal. The key here is
getting the word out beyond your circle of influence. We only win in large
numbers, that is how we become a market force bringing about a whirlwind of
change.
>
> Besides bumper stickers, car magnets, static cling window decals and
t-shirts, the store also has 1/2" diameter Buyblue.org ink stampers. Now
this is a fun little gadget that is sure to create a stir. Here are just a
few things you can stamp to get the word out: envelopes, letters, bills,
checks â?" really most anything that moves from person to person. Got any
ideas of your own? Weâ?Td love to hear about them.
>
> Visit the Buy Blue Store today (http://www.buybluestore.com/) and let your
friends and family in on the scoop. Better yet, share the love and buy them
something too!Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:45:48 -0800
> From: "Mark Seman" <FCS at Moscow.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Give the High School to NSA? Forget it!
> To: "Jim Meyer" <m1e2y3e4 at Moscow.com>, <vision2020 at Moscow.com>
> Message-ID: <CMEAKLMKKOJOEOINCPGBIENFCBAA.FCS at Moscow.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Jim,
> I don't think you understood my intended message. The notion behind my
post
> was my perceived need for this community (individuals, groups,
organizations
> ... people) to get its act together and work towards a holistic and
visioned
> approach to community development. If the timelines and scopes-of-work
for
> all the various "projects" that are in the works were understood, then
there
> is greater opportunity for comprehensive and coordinated development. I
> know it's pie-in-the-sky, because it would take tremendous community
effort
> to work together at that level. What I would like to see is at least a
> greater effort of collaboration.
>
> I mentioned NSA because it is one component of this community, as are all
> the other named "groups" (and all the un-named individuals), that I feel
> need to work together to make Moscow a place I want to live. Contrary to
> your statement - I believe it IS in the best interest of most everyone in
> Moscow (and beyond) for all of us to be working towards a common goal.
The
> difficulty with this concept is: "What is the common goal?" What is it
that
> we can all agree to? I don't know what that magical element is. But I
feel
> we need to find it, otherwise we will continue to be a bitter, polarized,
> apethetic, intolerant group of people who just happen to live together. I
> don't have to live here, but just like most everyone else here, I want
> to...until I can't stand it, then I'll go find COMMUNITY elsewhere.
>
> This is not an issue about "giving" to any one organization, rather it is
> about giving to the community to develop community. Giving what? Giving
> your commitment, your constructive critisims, your tolerance, your ideas,
> your money, your time to make Moscow worth living in - for now and for the
> future. I want to see a Moscow that is fun, cohesive, tolerant, and
> vibrant. We don't have to agree, believe, understand, or know what others
> do. And rather than argue over differences, I'd like to seeing discussion
> and movement towards defining and agreement upon a common goal. In my
mind
> there is room for this, maybe we still need to squabble over differences
for
> awhile longer, but eventually we ALL need to get over it and move on.
>
> Still waiting,
> Mark
> * * * * * * * * * * *
> Mark Seman, Architect
> Heather Seman, Landscape Architect
> Full Circle Studios
> 1404 East 'F' Street
> Moscow, Idaho 83843
> v 208-883-3276
> f 208-883-0112
> FCS at Moscow.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Jim Meyer
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:33 PM
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Give the High School to NSA? Forget it!
>
>
> Interesting that Evan Holmes thinks the City of Moscow should "give" the
old
> high school to New St. Andrews College.
> (Editorial Daily News 1/14/05)
>
> Interesting that Mark Seaman says: (Vision2020 vol 8 #69)
> "...There are so many possible avenues for community integration with the
> school
> facilities, ice rink, HIRC, aquatics center, UI, **NSA**, City Hall, 1912,
> library, fair grounds, courthouse, etc. I don't know of a long-range plan
> that identifies how these opportunities for integration are envisioned
> to..."
>
> Interesting that the Trust Indenture of the New St Andrews College Trust
> says:
> The Board of Elders of Christ Church (Trustor) grants in trust the
property
> called New St Andrews College to
> the trustees (pg2), one of whom is trustee for life, Douglas Wilson(pg4).
> Additionally that the Trustor can remove any
> trustee at the trustor's sole discretion (pg3) (Public
Records--Application
> for Tax Exemption NSA Board of Equalization Received March 2003)
>
> In summary, it is not in the interests of the majority of citizens of
Moscow
> to support an organization (NSA) that is controlled by an organization
> (Christ Church) whose fearless leader's views are regarded as repugnant by
> the general public, i.e. "Slavery as it Was" and whose followers
unfailingly
> castigate the public school system, i.e. the "government school," (their
> words).
>
> For goodness sake, why should the City of Moscow and/or Moscow School
> District support New St Andrews College in any manner? Especially, when
NSA
> has a their brand only religious test for admittance (in sharp contrast to
> Gonzaga, a religious but truly public spirited institution that is open to
> all and thus operates in the public interest and is deserving of public
> support).
>
> Obviously "giving" anything to NSA is not a viable option to most of
> Moscow's citizenry.
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:48:18 -0800
> From: Jasper Nance <nanc3296 at uidaho.edu>
> Subject: [Vision2020] AURORAS!
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <119f9211df5f.11df5f119f92 at uidaho.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> If you can see the sky through the clouds, be on the look out for auroras
from now until around 1AM. If you can stay up longer, even better!!
>
> *glad she ordered that 400 film last week on a random shopping spree*
> Meet you on mountain view!
> Ms Jasper Nance
>
> http://nebar.gotdns.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 04:14:50 EST
> From: DonaldH675 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Give the High School to NSA? Forget it!
> To: FCS at moscow.com, m1e2y3e4 at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> Message-ID: <ae.6a0d41ce.2f1f7f0a at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Mark:
>
> There are doubtless many worthwhile uses of the *old* Moscow High School
(if
> a new building is constructed) but NONE of those ways include giving a
> building to a religious group. Quite aside from the very important issue
of
> separation of church and state, it is outlandish to suggest that a school
whose
> philosophical positions that are odious to a large number of taxpayers in
this
> community should be the recipient of community largesse.
>
> While I understand your desire to build tolerance and understanding in
> Moscow, it is impossible to imagine a situation where the intolerant
philosophy of
> New St. Andrews is rewarded by our naive forbearance - think Neville
> Chamberlain. I direct your attention to the New Saint Andrews web site:
> http://www.newstandrews.org/news/catalog/13conduct.pdf
> which states in part:
>
> "We also warn students, for the protection of their souls and the peace of
> the College, to avoid false teaching and errant doctrine. We expect
students
> will neither embrace nor promote, formally or informally, historic or
> contemporary doctrinal errors, such as Arianism, Socinianism, Pelagianism,
> Skepticism, Feminism, the so-called Openness of God Theology, etc. among
their fellow
> students. If students do come to embrace such errant doctrines
personally,
> they promise by their signed pledge to inform the administration
immediately
> and honestly in a letter offering to withdraw from the college. For more
> information about these doctrinal errors, see .......Seraiah, The End of
All
> Things (Canon Press); Beisner, Evangelical Heathenism (Canon Press); and
Wilson
> (Doug) ed. Bound Only Once (Canon Press)."
>
> New Saint Andrews is free to demand a lock-step response to Doug Wilson's
> interpretation of the scriptural *truth.* (A right you notice that is
denied
> to the students of NSA). But it is certainly not in the best interest of
this
> community to pretend or imagine for a nano-second that his *vision*
should be
> financially supported in any way by the rest of us.
>
> Rose Huskey
>
> "One cannot level one's moral lance at every evil in the universe. There
are
> just too many of them. But you can do something, and the difference
between
> doing something and doing nothing is everything." Daniel Berrigan
>
>
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