[Vision2020] Einstein and Quantum Mechanics

[Phil Nisbet]

Nick

I notice that you changed this post from the original off line one you sent 
me.

As I noted to you in my response, genocide apologists use Heisenberg's ideas 
to this day;

Carl K. Savich's War, Journalism, and Propaganda An Analysis of Media 
Coverage of the Bosnian and Kosovo Conflicts.  He writes;

"First of all, our understanding of the world is inextricably tied to our 
language. Language cannot be dispensed with to arrive at a pure, 
self-authenticating truth or method. As quantum mechanics and the Heisenberg 
Uncertainty Principle of German quantum physicist Werner Heisenberg have 
shown, physical reality is probabilistic, relative, and uncertain. That is, 
there is no objective truth out there; there is no absolute truth, but only 
a truth. Thus, there can in theory be no completely unbiased, objective 
truth. To search for absolute truth is in theory an illusion."

Heisenberg himself thought of himself as a philosopher and his early work in 
that area was supported and sponsored by Himmler personally.

You state that Heidegger stayed in Germany and wrote during the period, but 
did he run a slave labor camp?  Did Heidegger develop weapons for the Nazi's 
use?  Did Heidegger work directly for the SS?

I lived close to a decade of my life in Germany.  In that time I knew any 
number of people involved in the war.  I have meet and talked to Von Donitz 
and even meet Heisenberg.  I see a vast moral gulf between the two men.  Von 
Donitz was only too willing to admit that his support for the Nazi regime 
had been wrong and was a moral quagmire and that he had been justly 
sentenced for his crimes during the period.  Heisenberg, on the other hand, 
tried to gloss over any wrong doing or any role of his and even went so far 
as to try to claim that he had been working against the regime from the 
inside.

When reporting the truth about somebody becomes ad hominem is a question I 
ask of you.

You are not a moral relativist and I did not report you as being one Nick.  
I am sorry for the typo, but it was not done as some sort of a nefarious 
plot against you.  I take you at your word that you are a realist.  I am 
asking why any person would support the extension of the Uncertainty 
principle beyond its use as a mathematical model for specific use in 
subatomic particle work or use Darwinian survival of the fittest as a 
philosophy beyond its initial application in evolutionary thought.  I think 
it is obvious that both have lead to genocide, to a dehumanizing moral 
relativism that allows mass murderers to get off scot free.  I do not 
believe that you are guilty of that, but others are.

Phil Nisbet




>From: Nick Gier <ngier at uidaho.edu>
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Einstein and Quantum Mechanics
>Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:44:19 -0800
>
>Hi Phil,
>
>I'll wait until the referees have reported on our Einstein/Quantum 
>Mechanics debate.  I'm sure they will have found that both sides have made 
>some errors in this discussion.
>
>But I have to say that last your last effort to smear Heisenberg by 
>implying moral relativism from the uncertainty principle is just as absurd 
>and insulting as conservative Christians drawing the same moral conclusions 
>about Einsteinian relativity and Whiteheadian process philosophy.
>
>You have performed a vicious ad hominem attack.  There are any number of 
>Germans from the Nazi period that we could completely condemn and eliminate 
>from history if we used your methods consistently.  I did my dissertation 
>on Martin Heidegger, who, I later came to know, did despicable things as 
>Nazi rector of the University of Freiburg, and, who until his death, 
>refused to come clean about his Nazi past, but it is simply a fallacy to 
>then say that everything he wrote philosophically is wrong because of that.
>
>By the way, the first name is Nick (not Mick) and as a realist I'm very 
>much concerned about my existence (not existance). My posts have a few 
>typos even after proof reading, but posting without proofing is sloppy and 
>shows disrespect for your dialogue partners.
>
>Nick
>


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