[Vision2020] Once the rockets go up, who cares where they come down?

[Joan Opyr]

On 29 Dec 2005, at 11:44, Nick Gier wrote:

>  Hi Phil,
>
>  I'll wait until the referees have reported on our Einstein/Quantum 
> Mechanics debate.  I'm sure they will have found that both sides have 
> made some errors in this discussion.
>
>  But I have to say that last your last effort to smear Heisenberg by 
> implying moral relativism from the uncertainty principle is just as 
> absurd and insulting as conservative Christians drawing the same moral 
> conclusions about Einsteinian relativity and Whiteheadian process 
> philosophy. 
>
>  You have performed a vicious ad hominem attack.  There are any number 
> of Germans from the Nazi period that we could completely condemn and 
> eliminate from history if we used your methods consistently.  I did my 
> dissertation on Martin Heidegger, who, I later came to know, did 
> despicable things as Nazi rector of the University of Freiburg, and, 
> who until his death, refused to come clean about his Nazi past, but it 
> is simply a fallacy to then say that everything he wrote 
> philosophically is wrong because of that.
>
>  By the way, the first name is Nick (not Mick) and as a realist I'm 
> very much concerned about my existence (not existance). My posts have 
> a few typos even after proof reading, but posting without proofing is 
> sloppy and shows disrespect for your dialogue partners.
>
>  Nick
>

Dear Phil, Nick, John D, Ted, and the elusive "Mick,"

While I wouldn't presume to take a position on Quantum Mechanics (about 
which I know bupkes), I am with Phil in asserting that it is relevant 
that we know and understand the sources of our information.  No, the 
rockets designed by Werner Von Braun did not fail, but he, like 
Heidegger, like Heisenberg -- and, I'm sorry to say, like the great 
Beowulf scholar, F. Klaeber -- was a despicable, morally bankrupt man.  
This does not mean that we cannot/do not use their work; it does mean, 
however, that we must be careful.  The Nazis acquired valuable 
knowledge about hypothermia by dumping Jewish concentration camp 
prisoners into freezing cold tanks of water; not too many years ago, a 
group of British scientists cited this work in their own research.  The 
consensus at the time was that the Nazi work should not have been cited 
as its acquisition was both immoral and tainted.

There is a moral and ethical line here.  I can't draw it for physicists 
or biologists, as I am neither.  I have long been obliged to rely on F. 
Klaeber's work in my Beowulf studies.  I really have no choice.  
Klaeber's edition is THE edition of a much damaged text, comprising as 
it does both his direct copy of the original and his use of the 
Thorkelin transcripts (copies made before the original manuscript began 
to fall to pieces at the edges due to age and fire damage).  But 
Klaeber left England just before the Second World War to go home to 
Germany and work for Hitler.  He died during the war and is no doubt 
now floating on a stinking cloud somewhere up in Nazi Valhalla.  It is 
essential that Beowulf scholars know Klaeber's history, know his 
prejudices, and take great care in assessing Klaeber's interpretations 
of the Beowulf text; no one should take them at face value.  No one 
should take anything at face value.

That said, I just want to register my outrage that John D would suggest 
that Phil has based his argument for punctuated equilibrium on the fact 
that Darwin was a WASP and Stephen Jay Gould a Jew -- there's more than 
a whiff of anti-Semitism in the air on this list.  There's a positive 
stench.  Let's spray a little Wizard around, shall we?  For a start, 
let's have a look at Tom Lehrer's take on Dr. Von Braun, below.

Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
www.joanopyr.com

"Werner Von Braun"
By Tom Lehrer

Gather round as I sing you of Werner von Braun
A man whose allegiance
is ruled by expedience
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown
"Nazi, Schmazi" says Werner von Braun

Don't say that he's hypocritical
Say rather that he's apolitical
"Once ze rockets go up, who cares where zey come down?
That's not my department" says Werner von Braun.

Some have harsh words for this man of renown
But some say our attitude
Should be one of gratitude
Like the widows and cripples of old London town
Who owe their large pensions to Werner von Braun

You too can be such a hero
If you can count backward to zero
"In English und German, I know how to count down
Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Werner von Braun