[Vision2020] Saturday's paper
Saundra Lund
sslund at adelphia.net
Sun Dec 18 13:12:51 PST 2005
Hi Again Janesta and Interested Visionaries:
I do hope you accepted my assertion that I wasn't meaning to "pick" on you
because I'm not, and I do appreciate the opportunity to discuss this
further.
While I've not met you personally, I trust you understand that folks
thinking -- for whatever reasons, valid or not -- they know what *really*
happened contributes to the kind of mob mentality that's so dangerous.
While our judicial system isn't perfect, I do think it's one of the best in
the world in part because of the presumption of innocence.
I don't know that we disagree on this issue -- perhaps we do. However, I
*am* puzzled at your implication that I somehow think he doesn't belong in
jail because that's just not accurate: if he can't post bond, then that's
where he needs to be. And, no -- I'm not willing to contribute to any bail
fund :-) I don't know the man and I certainly wouldn't be willing to vouch
for his appearing at future court dates.
However, I do want to address a couple of comments you made.
You wrote:
"Why else would twenty women come forward for testing . . . "
My understanding -- and someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- was that
the testing wasn't exclusively for women whom had contact with Mubita, it
was for *anyone* concerned about HIV exposure. It's a sad fact that there's
some high risk behavior out there, and unless one of the criteria for
testing was contact with Mubita, I don't see any reason for assuming that
all who showed up were concerned *only* because of contact with Mubita.
You also wrote:
"What I am upset about is his "allegedly" irresponsible behaviour."
Yes, if what's been reported is true, I think we all have reason to be upset
-- and worse. But, I'm also upset about the number of young adults who
engage in high risk behavior, whether with Mubita or anyone else. I am
incredibly saddened that in 2005, so many people in our community reportedly
aren't protecting themselves -- it truly just breaks my heart.
You also wrote:
"This is an in our face wake up call. Women need to carry them, and refuse a
man who won't use one."
Yes, indeed, for those who missed the earlier wake-up calls! Perhaps it's a
generational thing? At 44 (for another couple of weeks), I don't mind
saying I'm middle-aged :-) I also lived in CA from 1970-1988, so perhaps
I'm more aware that others who grew up in more sheltered areas.
However, I do have to say that when I first moved here in 1988 as a
non-traditional college student, I had lots of friends -- male & female --
who were young college students from "sheltered" backgrounds. And, I was
impressed at the level of responsibility many of them showed: safer sex and
regular testing, although not necessarily through the health department
because of the perceived "stigma."
As tragic as this situation is, perhaps this scare *will* serve as a
reminder to those who've forgotten. Remember, those young adults who come
to our community didn't just suddenly develop high risk behaviors upon
arrival or starting college.
You also wrote:
"You would be shocked at how many parents do not talk to their kids about
those things."
No, unfortunately, I wouldn't be shocked <sigh>. I've worked on volunteer
committees to develop sex ed curriculum for different age groups, and *that*
was a truly frightening -- and heart-breaking -- experience as well. There
are more than a few parents who think *no* sex ed should be taught in the
schools, and that discussion of condoms specifically and safer sex in
general promote promiscuity. I could go on & on, but suffice it to say that
because of my background, I recognize the full extent of this problem, and
it's the kids who really pay the price.
And, since I've got a teen who tells me everything, I'm perhaps more aware
than others of what that really means at this time in our history :-(
You also wrote:
"These kids come away from home for the first time and think they are
invincible."
Yes, and I think learning they aren't invincible is part of the growing up
process. Unfortunately, it often seems to take a scare or tragedy that hits
close to home to speed the process . . . suicide, unplanned pregnancies,
STDs, and drug & alcohol-related tragedies are *all* things that touch this
community all too many times each year. <sigh>
You also wrote:
"I find it sad that more of the clubs in town have not taken a more
pro-active approach in educating their clientele. I applaud CJ's for their
efforts."
Yes -- I absolutely agree. However, I also find it sad that it took
something like this to get HIV awareness back to our collective
consciousness. Perhaps there's a sense among some that since this isn't a
"big city," they are "safe" here from all kinds of things, which is just
plain stupid. Our community experiences the same sorts of problems "big
cities" face, and if any good is to come of this, perhaps it will be to
remind us all of that fact, and ***not*** just respect to HIV transmission.
All of that said, I remain deeply, *deeply* troubled by how quickly some are
willing to disregard the presumption of innocence :-((( Now, for those who
have personal *first-hand* knowledge of this situation, it's understandable,
I think. But, for the rest of us . . .
On a brighter note, if some are wanting to make sure they don't get stuck
with jury duty for this case, I think that goal has been accomplished.
JMHO,
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
Edmund Burke
***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
without the express written permission of the author.*****
-----Original Message-----
From: Janesta Carcich [mailto:janestacarcich at yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 11:16 AM
To: Saundra Lund; 'Tom Hansen'; 'Art Deco'; 'Vision 2020'
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Saturday's paper
I don't have my newspaper here... according to what I have read he was told
several times by Department of Health he was HIV+, yet continued to have
unprotected intimate relations with women. Why else would twenty women come
forward for testing, one of whom I personally know who DID have relations
with him. I will not repeat the other things I have been told, theey are
confidential, and have not been reported publicly.
I stand corrected, and should have used another word, about trial, judgment
and sentencing.
We can't have Kanay in jail, thinking about what he did. By all means, he
must be feeling rather "pent-up"
by now. That small cell and all. So why not pool funds and bail him out?
Then we can spend... how much has Whitman County spent looking for Fred
Russell?
ANYONE who knows me, knows I am the last person in the world to judge
someone if they were HIV+, or have full blown AIDS. What I am upset about
is his "allegedly"
irresponsible behaviour.
Health care providers have been practicing Universal Precautions for years
now. How many of us would be upset if the nurse or physician did not use
latex gloves when performing a procedure, or change gloves?
*ick* It is time that anyone who is having casual, short term,
non-monogamous relations to use a condom.
This is an in our face wake up call. Women need to carry them, and refuse a
man who won't use one.
My housemate was sharing with me the other day (sorry, no statics, or link)
that the new rise in HIV+ group will be those of my age group and older.
Since Viagra came out, many men and women are once again sexually active.
Men and women who grew up in the 60's, the era of "free sex", not using a
condom, thinking it could never be them. Remembering when a shot took care
of everything. I have news for you. There is a strain of drug resistant HIV
out there.
When my children were in high school, our home was a place a lot of kids
hung out. In those days, I don't even want to remember how much I spent on
food. It was A LOT! We figured if they were here, eating, There was always
something in the crock pot for them to eat... basketball hoop, ping-pong,
cribbage, you name it to keep them busy, and here! Feeding them would be
cheaper than attorney fees. Some mornings I would wake up to 8 young men
sleeping downstairs in the den.
These boys talked to me about everything, and when I say everything.... I
mean EVERYTHING. There was always one or two in the group who would confess
what was really going on with so and so... I told them about my life, my
friends, what happens when you use drugs, or drink, giving them examples. I
also talked safe sex with those boys, the emotional consequences of sex, how
waiting was a good idea, i brought them educational pamplets from WSU
Student Health on self examination for testicular cancer, among other
educational materials. AND, I made sure my husband, who was in nursing
school at the time, would bring home condoms. You would be shocked at how
many parents do not talk to their kids about those things. These young men
TOLD ME SO! Talk about head in the sand! I posted the information about
Kanay at other site I frequent. Many people were thankful, because it opened
doors for deep discussion with their kids. Oh, and some of you think your
kids would NEVER EVER have sex.
I have news for you. We did A LOT of testing in Pullman for Moscow young
adults. Kids who had parents who would NEVER think their child would even
kiss. Now remember this was quite some time ago when I worked there. Maybe
things have changed, and they listen to mom and dad.
My head is not in the sand, Saundra. Until recently, I worked in some form
of health-care around the Palouse.
I spent 8 years working at Pullman Hospital. I am more aware than most of
you, that the HIV has been here for quite some time.
I find it sad that more of the clubs in town have not taken a more
pro-active approach in educating their clientele. I applaud CJ's for their
efforts. These kids come away from home for the first time and think they
are invincible. Thank goodness Shelley has been pro-active. I have never met
her, so I will be looking forward to the picnic.
Sorry this reply is scattered. I need to go bake Christmas cookies. *grin*
In my house they are Christmas cookies.
Happy Holidays!
Janesta
--- Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net> wrote:
> Hi Janesta & Visionaries:
>
> Janesta, you wrote:
> "He needs to be punished. Jail is punishment."
>
> I don't mean to be picking on you, but did I miss something? You
> know, something like the trial, judgment, and sentencing?
> What happened to the
> presumption of innocence?
>
> Also, can anyone share with us how bond amount is determined? Isn't
> the purpose of bail just to make sure the defendant shows up for
> trial, *not* to act as a punishment before guilt is determined?
>
> Finally, I just want to add that with the reaction I've seen with
> respect to this alleged situation, it's no wonder those in our
> community who are HIV+ (and you are living in a fairyland if you think
> he's the only one) keep it a deep, dark secret.
>
> I'd like to remind folks that there are ***always*** at least two
> sides to a story, and we've not even heard one side.
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
> do nothing.
> Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra
> Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
> forum without the express written permission of the
> author.*****
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Janesta Carcich
> Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:57 AM
> To: Tom Hansen; 'Art Deco'; 'Vision 2020'
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Saturday's paper
>
> No. he needs to stay in the Hotel Latah. I would much rather pay for
> him to be there, health care included, than to be at home.
> He needs to be punished.
> Jail is punishment. Staying home, watching tv, etc., is not
> punishment.
>
> Janesta
> --- Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps, if Kenay were to be released on bond, he
> should be placed
> > under house arrest and fitted with one of them
> nice shiny black
> > bracelets.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> >
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >
> >
> > "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with
> the intention of
> > arriving safely in an attractive and well
> preserved body, but rather
> > to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a
> drink in the other, body
> > thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
> 'WOO HOO. What a
> > ride!'"
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> > [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> > On Behalf Of Art Deco
> > Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:15 AM
> > To: Vision 2020
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Saturday's paper
> >
> >
> >
> > Shelley,
> >
> >
> >
> > As I understand it, his bail is now set for
> $20,000.
> > This means he could
> > purchase a bail bond for $2,000.
> >
> >
> >
> > Given the possible/probable consequences of and
> the possible
> > continuance of his alleged behavior if he were to
> be bailed, $2,000 is
> > a ridiculously small amount to guarantee his
> appearance to answer the
> > several charges against him and to keep him from
> fleeing. [Remember
> > Fredrick Russell.]
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps after the preliminary hearing on Tuesday,
> his bail amount will
> > be increased, if the prosecutor requests it and
> magistrate Hamlett
> > sees fit to agree.
> >
> >
> > Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> > deco at moscow.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Shelly <mailto:CJs at turbonet.com>
> >
> > To: mdoyle at dnews.com
> >
> > Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com ; smcclure at dnews.com
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:07 AM
> >
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Saturday's paper
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Megan - is Kenay's "bond" set for $20,000.00 or
> his "bail?"
> >
> >
> >
> > Shelley Roderick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=54475>
> Add FUN to your email
> > - CLICK HERE!
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step
> Internet, serving the
> > communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >
> > http://www.fsr.net
>
> >
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
>
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> >
> > >
>
_____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step
> Internet, serving the
> > communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >
> > http://www.fsr.net
>
> >
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
>
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> >
>
>
=== message truncated ===
Janesta Carcich
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