[Vision2020] NSA/Verizon/Zoning Trouble Timeline (was: Whostartedit? Wh...

Sat Dec 17 15:34:39 PST 2005

Hi G. Crabtree,

It seems an odd salutation -- are you a Mr., a Ms., a Mrs., or a Miss?  I
can understand some folks not necessarily wanting to use a first name in a
public forum, but I'd appreciate a little more information so my salutation
can be more appropriate.

Since I'm feeling a bit ornery, I'll start our by answering your question
thusly:
"Just because you pose a question does not entitle you to an answer, and
with the level of spin you put on your question . . . "

OK -- just joking by quoting your own words back to you  ;-)

To answer your question, though, it wasn't the inaccurate "biased" crack but
rather the also incorrect and insulting, "Not that the facts really matter
to you . . ." opening I found particularly insulting, especially from
Donovan.  While we don't always agree, I'd though we'd had enough
interactions for Donovan to know me better than that.  Guess I was wrong . .
. it's not the first time, and it undoubtedly won't be the last, either.

Does that help you to understand?

HTH,
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
without the express written permission of the author.*****

-----Original Message-----
From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot at adelphia.net] 
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 2:23 PM
To: Saundra Lund; 'Donovan Arnold'; DonaldH675 at aol.com;
joanopyr at earthlink.net; bbonte at moscow.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NSA/Verizon/Zoning Trouble Timeline (was:
Whostartedit? Wh...

Perhaps it's just me but since when does referring to someone as biased
qualify as an "ugly and hateful" personal attack? I will freely admit that I
am biased with regard to certain matters and I suspect everyone else is as
well. Would you care to school me as to where the truth stopped and the
attack started?

Waiting patiently,
G. Crabtree
From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; <DonaldH675 at aol.com>;
<joanopyr at earthlink.net>; <bbonte at moscow.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] NSA/Verizon/Zoning Trouble Timeline (was: 
Whostartedit? Wh...

> Donovan,
>
> Why do you always find it necessary to assume the worst about questions
> asked and resort to personal attacks?
>
> I'm willing to entertain the notion that I misunderstood what you meant 
> when
> you posted:
> "NSA moved because they were asked to by the city. The city said they 
> could
> move downtown. So they did."
>
> What I understood -- correctly or incorrectly -- from what you posted was
> that, ***prior*** to actually moving downtown, the City had given NSA the
> green light to locate downtown.  Is that not what you meant?
>
> If that *is* what you meant, I merely asked you to cite your source 
> because
> I saw nothing in the City files indicating NSA had communicated with the
> City prior to purchasing the old Verizon building and had been given a 
> green
> light by the City.
>
> So, if I correctly understood what you posted, please cite your source.
>
> If I misunderstood, then I apologize and ask you to clarify what you 
> meant.
>
> I don't know which BOA meeting you referred to in your response to me, so 
> I
> don't know if I was there or not -- can you clarify?  At none of the
> meetings I've attended have I heard Mr. Plaskon indicate that he or anyone
> else in the Community Development Department gave NSA the green light to
> locate downtown *prior* to  the property's purchase.
>
> Certainly, there's been a lot happening *since* the zoning complaint was
> filed, but I understood Mr. Bonte's question to pertain to the *origins* 
> of
> the zoning difficulty, not to what's happened in the last year.
>
> BTW, Donovan, you are incorrect about your interpretation of my
> "contention":  I was referring to what transpired *prior* to the 
> property's
> purchase, so your take on what happened long after the fact is irrelevant.
> I had thought my post was clear about that, but you apparently missed that
> important point.
>
> But, really, Donovan, I find your personal attack unwarranted.  I simply
> asked you to cite your source and further explained:
> "If I missed something, I'd like to know what I missed & why it wasn't in
> the City file."
>
> What did I write in my post that you think justifies such an ugly and
> hateful response from you???  As I suspect you're aware, those kind of
> responses to genuine inquiries are part of the reason V2020 has so many
> lurkers rather than participants.
>
>
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
> Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:40 AM
> To: Saundra Lund; DonaldH675 at aol.com; joanopyr at earthlink.net;
> bbonte at moscow.com
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] NSA/Verizon/Zoning Trouble Timeline (was:
> Whostarted it? Wh...
>
> Saundra,
>
> Not that the facts really matter to you. But if you were actually at the
> zoning meeting, which I believe you were, Joel testified to the BOA that 
> NSA
> was a similar use and therefore fit the downtown zoning code. Who else did
> you expect NSA to contact before moving downtown, every single member of 
> the
> city council, to get their take in case a complaint was filed against them
> for being downtown in case they disagreed with Joel?
>
> Your contention is that either;
>
> Joel told NSA they could not be downtown while telling the BOA they could
>
> OR
>
> NSA is responsible for calling every member of the BOA or City Council to
> ensure that Joel's interpretation of the zoning code is correct.
>
> In either case, I do not think that you can hold NSA responsible.
>
> You have gotten so biased it is getting ridiculous Saundra. And NSA will 
> be
> staying downtown and not paying any taxes.
>
> Take Care,
>
> _DJA
>
> Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> Donovan wrote:
> "NSA moved because they were asked to by the city. The city said
> they could
> move downtown."
>
> Really, Donovan? Cite your source, please, because I'm not aware the
> City
> said NSA could move downtown.
>
> Back when the zoning issue was first brought to light, I knew
> *nothing* at
> all about zoning in general. So, I started learning about zoning in
> Moscow
> :-)
>
> Some of you may remember that last January, I asked some of the same
> questions Mr. Bonte raised again yesterday.
>
> "It's taken me a few days now to get this far -- I don't think I'd
> ever
> looked at Moscow's Land Use Regulations
> (http://www.ci.moscow.id.us/citycode/TITLE04/toc.asp)
> (let alone started actually reading them) until Saturday's paper.
> Does
> anyone know how/when the whole Zoning Code comes into play? I'm not
> (nor
> have I ever been) a business owner, but if someone was interested in
> purchasing property on Main Street, would they be expected to know
> that a
> particular property is zoned CB? Would a realtor inform a potential
> buyer
> about the zoning requirements for a specific parcel(s)? Would a
> potential
> buyer have contact with anyone from the City *prior* to actually
> purchasing
> a specific property for a specific use?"
>
> A Visionarie suggested to me that I actually go look for *myself* at
> the
> City's zoning file on NSA, so that's what I did. It's old news now,
> of
> course, but I was absolutely shocked to find that (NSA & the Verizon
> building) wasn't the first time NSA had run afoul of zoning. That's
> when --
> for me -- the questions I asked above ceased to have much importance
> in the
> zoning problem: NSA had no excuse for being ignorant about zoning
> regs
> because they'd run into problems previously and had been educated by
> City
> staff.
>
> Before learning that, I was more interested in a resolution that
> would have
> treated NSA as a genuinely ignorant first time offender, but as my
> granddaddy always used to say, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me
> twice,
> shame on me."
>
> And, that's why I ask, Donovan, that you cite your source: ***no
> where***
> in all the records did I see the City tell NSA it could move
> downtown. If I
> missed something, I'd like to know what I missed & why it wasn't in
> the City
> file.
>
>
> TIA,
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
> to do
> nothing.
> Edmund Burke
>
> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra
> Lund.
> Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
> forum
> without the express written permission of the author.*****
>
>
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