[Vision2020] Does Phil Nisbet Practice Anti-Gentilism?

[Phil Nisbet]

Nick

I can see pretty plainly that you are losing it, but that is no reason to 
wax nasty.

As I have pointed out previously, your claims do not exist in accurate 
historical timeline.  That is not a religious argument Nick, its historical 
fact.  The Greek supporting Temple controlling party of the Sadducees is not 
older in tradition than the Pharisee party of the Synagogues.  Both begin to 
diverge from older traditions at the time of the Babylonian Captivity.  The 
views you claim are traditional, to whit those held by the Sadducees, are 
influenced by the interaction of the Temple elite by contact and working 
with the Greeks that entered the scene with the advent of Alexander.  
Sadducee Party affiliation with the Greek elite was cause of strong 
divergence from the rest of the Judaism of the country side and one of the 
reasons for this Particular season’s holiday, Hanukah, as Pharisee Party 
supporters drove the Greeks out to proclaim a free state.

The Talmud, the gathering of oral laws into a code and the results of the 
legal wrangles of the Rabbis, was started during the Babylonian Captivity.  
At the same time, the first actual redaction of the Tanakh was taking place 
and the Babylonian Talmud references the scholars who were so involved.  
Many of the books that make up the Tanakh are younger than the first 
portions of the Talmud.

Similarly, not one of your referenced Jewish compatriots is going to tell 
you that Talmud was not begun in the period I have just stated.  They too 
know that that is fact not on a religious basis but on historical basis.  
They will also have to acknowledge that the oldest redacted book is not part 
of the Torah, but the historical accounts in Kings and in Samuel and as 
books that we know are older than the Babylonian Captivity, their concept of 
life after death must therefore be assumed to be the belief structure which 
historically existed prior to the existence of either the Sadducees or the 
Pharisees.

I am not pitching a religious idea here; I am stating what is known from 
historical records, source documents of the time.  I am not talking 
religious traditions or calling into question anybodies ideas on their 
personal religion, I am saying that you have the facts of the historical 
situation wrong and that suggesting that Sadducee thought was original 
Judaism is simply not an accurate reflection of HISTORY.

How you then try to claim that I am a biblical absolutist is beyond me.  I 
have accurately shown you that Rabbinic Judaism, rooted in Pharisee 
traditions was in existence at the same time as Sadducee Party groups and 
further that they were those who codified the oral law, the Talmud, to keep 
that portion of the law in place while the Temple lay in moldering ruins.  I 
think I can say without a problem that anybody who goes simply to Tanakh and 
makes no reference to Talmud is not reflecting the reality historically of 
Jewish thought of the period in question.

E, J and the rest all existed historically.  Many of the books in Tanakh are 
written and compiled well after the times that they reflect.  Most were 
redacted well after the time they were initially written.    And further, 
the Oral law, the law that is as important to understanding Jewish tradition 
as the Common Law is to understanding English Tradition, was codified during 
the great redactive period of the Babylonian Exile and its aftermath.  That 
is not exactly seeing the Tanakh in absolutist terms, now is it Nick?

I suggested that the diatribe that your buddy Ralph spewed out here on 
selling Jewish daughters into slavery was anti-Semitic.  Reality is that it 
was.  As I pointed out the same sorts of routines are common fair on 
Neo-Nazi websites.  It does not take into consideration any of the realities 
of what the text actually says or what it means.  It also does not take 
resort in how the Rabbis looked at the cases involving the law or what 
thought at the time on it was, which are quite accurately reflected in 
Talmud.

I am not anti-Goy, Ralph, I just do not care to have somebody telling lies 
out of school about the History of Judaism or of Jewish Tradition and 
thought.  If you decide to spread lies about Jews, expect Jews to call you 
on those lies.  It is not a doctrinaire things I am calling into question, 
its historical fact warped to fit your idea of ancient doctrine to make 
points to beat on others that I am calling into question.

Phil Nisbet

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