[Vision2020] In Defense of Phil Nisbet

[Art Deco]

Perhaps Nick can educate Donovan about what a knowledge claim is.

W.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
To: "Nicholas Gier" <ngier at uidaho.edu>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 7:06 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] In Defense of Phil Nisbet


> Visionaries,
>
> Phil Nisbet has been offended by Ralph. I think to
> tell Phil he is wrong about his feelings and Ralph is
> right about Phil's feelings is a fruitless endeavor.
>
> Usually, when we offend someone we say, sorry, I did
> not mean to offend you. Ralph did not do that, he
> attempted to justify his offensive behavior by saying
> he knows more about the Bible than Phil.
>
> I can tell you now that although Ralph knows 1000
> times more than I do about the Bible, he has already
> said some things I know to be untrue about Catholics.
> So the fact that he may have made mistakes about the
> Jewish faith would not be surprising.
>
> A couple of comments on Dr. Geir's statements.
>
> 1) "Ralph has devoted much of his retirement to the
> study of the Bible from a healthy skeptical
> perspective."
>
> Studying the Bible does not equate to knowing the
> Jewish faith, or any faith for that matter.
>
> 2)"He has proved time and time again that Christians
> who claim to know the Bible usually don't know what
> they are talking about."
>
> Phil Nisbet is not a Christian. Christians usually
> study only a small portions of the Bible. So this is
> not surprising. If you are Catholic, like me, you are
> spoon fed portions the Bible.
>
>
> 3) "If Phil could just stop and realize that Ralph is
> talking scholarship"
>
> Why is the burden on Phil? Should Ralph not be the one
> that realizes we are not talking scholarship?
>
>
> Faith cannot be studied from a factual observational
> scientific viewpoint. It is entirely an internal
> relationship with God. You cannot put it in a book or
> debate it. Studying the Bible like the Rosetta Stone,
> in my opinion, is the wrong way of going about it.
>
> Donovan J Arnold
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings:
>
> I believed that Phil Nisbet has been unnecessarily
> harsh on my good
> friend Ralph Nielsen.  Ralph has devoted much of his
> retirement to the
> study of the Bible from a healthy skeptical
> perspective.  He has proved
> time and time again that Christians who claim to know
> the Bible usually
> don't know what they are talking about.
>
> Ralph and I have met devout Jews at scholarly
> conferences who are
> completely cool with the phrase "Hebrew Bible" and
> know how to distinguish a
> scholarly approach from a believer's approach.
>
> I suppose that Phil would not at all like my paper
> "Hebrew and Buddhist
> Concepts of Self," which is currently out for blind
> review.  It
> demonstrates that the Hebrew scriptures as they stand
> (not as they are
> interpeted by the various schools of Judaism) do not
> support that idea of a
> substantial or immortal soul.  Phil quotes a passage
> from Ecclesiastes
> and is unaware of the fact that what returns to God is
> not an immortal
> soul, but the divine breath that animates all life,
> including animal
> life. We and the animals return to the dust or a
> shadowy existence in
> Sheol.
>
> I appreciate the Jewish religious very much because it
> generally does
> not take scripture literally, and it also takes
> traditions very
> seriously.
>
> If Phil could just stop and realize that Ralph is
> talking scholarship
> and he is talking about the Jewish tradition, this
> blow up could have
> been avoided.
>
> Nick Gier
>
> --- Nicholas Gier <ngier at uidaho.edu> wrote:
>
>> Greetings:
>>
>> I believed that Phil Nisbet has been unnecessarily
>> harsh on my good friend Ralph Nielsen.  Ralph has
>> devoted much of his retirement to the study of the
>> Bible from a healthy skeptical perspective.  He has
>> proved time and time again that Christians who claim
>> to know the Bible usually don't know what they are
>> talking about.
>>
>> Ralph and I have met devout Jews at scholarly
>> conferences who are completely cool with the phrase
>> "Hebrew Bible" and know how to distinguish a
>> scholarly approach from a believer's approach.
>>
>> I suppose that Phil would not at all like my paper
>> "Hebrew and Buddhist Concepts of Self," which is
>> currently out for blind review.  It demonstrates
>> that the Hebrew scriptures as they stand (not as
>> they are interpeted by the various schools of
>> Judaism) do not support that idea of a substantial
>> or immortal soul.  Phil quotes a passage from
>> Ecclesiastes and is unaware of the fact that what
>> returns to God is not an immortal soul, but the
>> divine breath that animates all life, including
>> animal life. We and the animals return to the dust
>> or a shadowy existence in Sheol.
>>
>> I appreciate the Jewish religious very much because
>> it generally does not take scripture literally, and
>> it also takes traditions very seriously.
>>
>> If Phil could just stop and realize that Ralph is
>> talking scholarship and he is talking about the
>> Jewish tradition, this blow up could have been
>> avoided.
>>
>> Nick Gier
>>
>>
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>
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