[Vision2020] In Defense of Phil Nisbet

[Donovan Arnold]

Visionaries,

Phil Nisbet has been offended by Ralph. I think to
tell Phil he is wrong about his feelings and Ralph is
right about Phil's feelings is a fruitless endeavor.

Usually, when we offend someone we say, sorry, I did
not mean to offend you. Ralph did not do that, he
attempted to justify his offensive behavior by saying
he knows more about the Bible than Phil.

I can tell you now that although Ralph knows 1000
times more than I do about the Bible, he has already
said some things I know to be untrue about Catholics.
So the fact that he may have made mistakes about the
Jewish faith would not be surprising.

A couple of comments on Dr. Geir's statements.

1) "Ralph has devoted much of his retirement to the 
study of the Bible from a healthy skeptical
perspective."

Studying the Bible does not equate to knowing the
Jewish faith, or any faith for that matter.

2)"He has proved time and time again that Christians
who claim to know the Bible usually don't know what
they are talking about."

Phil Nisbet is not a Christian. Christians usually
study only a small portions of the Bible. So this is
not surprising. If you are Catholic, like me, you are
spoon fed portions the Bible.


3) "If Phil could just stop and realize that Ralph is
talking scholarship"

Why is the burden on Phil? Should Ralph not be the one
that realizes we are not talking scholarship?


Faith cannot be studied from a factual observational
scientific viewpoint. It is entirely an internal
relationship with God. You cannot put it in a book or
debate it. Studying the Bible like the Rosetta Stone,
in my opinion, is the wrong way of going about it. 

Donovan J Arnold

 



Greetings:

I believed that Phil Nisbet has been unnecessarily
harsh on my good 
friend Ralph Nielsen.  Ralph has devoted much of his
retirement to the 
study of the Bible from a healthy skeptical
perspective.  He has proved 
time and time again that Christians who claim to know
the Bible usually 
don't know what they are talking about.

Ralph and I have met devout Jews at scholarly
conferences who are 
completely cool with the phrase "Hebrew Bible" and
know how to distinguish a 
scholarly approach from a believer's approach. 

I suppose that Phil would not at all like my paper
"Hebrew and Buddhist 
Concepts of Self," which is currently out for blind
review.  It 
demonstrates that the Hebrew scriptures as they stand
(not as they are 
interpeted by the various schools of Judaism) do not
support that idea of a 
substantial or immortal soul.  Phil quotes a passage
from Ecclesiastes 
and is unaware of the fact that what returns to God is
not an immortal 
soul, but the divine breath that animates all life,
including animal 
life. We and the animals return to the dust or a
shadowy existence in 
Sheol.

I appreciate the Jewish religious very much because it
generally does 
not take scripture literally, and it also takes
traditions very 
seriously.  

If Phil could just stop and realize that Ralph is
talking scholarship 
and he is talking about the Jewish tradition, this
blow up could have 
been avoided.

Nick Gier

--- Nicholas Gier <ngier at uidaho.edu> wrote:

> Greetings:
> 
> I believed that Phil Nisbet has been unnecessarily
> harsh on my good friend Ralph Nielsen.  Ralph has
> devoted much of his retirement to the study of the
> Bible from a healthy skeptical perspective.  He has
> proved time and time again that Christians who claim
> to know the Bible usually don't know what they are
> talking about.
> 
> Ralph and I have met devout Jews at scholarly
> conferences who are completely cool with the phrase
> "Hebrew Bible" and know how to distinguish a
> scholarly approach from a believer's approach. 
> 
> I suppose that Phil would not at all like my paper
> "Hebrew and Buddhist Concepts of Self," which is
> currently out for blind review.  It demonstrates
> that the Hebrew scriptures as they stand (not as
> they are interpeted by the various schools of
> Judaism) do not support that idea of a substantial
> or immortal soul.  Phil quotes a passage from
> Ecclesiastes and is unaware of the fact that what
> returns to God is not an immortal soul, but the
> divine breath that animates all life, including
> animal life. We and the animals return to the dust
> or a shadowy existence in Sheol.
> 
> I appreciate the Jewish religious very much because
> it generally does not take scripture literally, and
> it also takes traditions very seriously.  
> 
> If Phil could just stop and realize that Ralph is
> talking scholarship and he is talking about the
> Jewish tradition, this blow up could have been
> avoided.
> 
> Nick Gier
> 
>
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