[Vision2020] Ralph, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Phil Nisbet]

Ralph: I'm only dealing with what the Tanakh says. I'm not trying to
tell you what to believe.

No Ralph you are indeed trying to dictate to somebody else what they 
believe.  And you did not answer when specifically sent to references that 
show that you are incorrect.

Ralph: "Christianity, since it claims to be a fulfillment of the
Jewish scripture, accepts the sanctity and normative nature of the
books of the Hebrew Bible" (The Oxford Dictionary of the Jewish
Religion, article on BIBLE, by Baruch J. Schwartz, Tel Aviv
University, p. 121).

That’s right Ralph, the Christians use a group of Jewish writings which they 
selected and call the Old Testement or the Hebrew Bible.  But the Hebrew 
Bible is not Tanakh.  Is this getting through to you?  Jews do not use the 
“Hebrew Bible”.  It’s a Christian thing.  Now do you follow?

Ralph: You don't sound like an educated man. If you were, you would
have shown where you think Dr. McKenzie is wrong instead of your
childish remark above.

>From the simple lack of your bothering to go to the referenced websites that 
I put in my post, the person who seems to lack education old son is not 
typing on this side of the screen.  When or if you bothered to read what the 
Rabbi at aish.com had to say, your Dr McKenzie’s argument was quite 
adequately destroyed.

And Ralph, you simply blow off what is said to you.  Tanakh is one part of 
the picture, only one part of Jewish knowledge and only one part of what is 
and was the religion for well over 2000 years.  For you to claim that Jews 
did not believe in an after life until some date of your personal desire by 
saying it is not contained in Tanakh falls on its face because there is 
abundant discussion of an afterlife in Mishnah.  The fact that you 
Christians do not accept the oral law traditions of Jewish literature, as 
redacted to form Mishnah, is not my problem.

You blow right over Solomon’s pronouncements in Kohelet, which clearly state 
the spirit returns to G-d from which it came and that’s in Tanakh. And well 
before Daniel.

As for your Jewish Reference, it’s from a book with Commentary by the 
Conservative Movement and is greatly at odds with traditional Jewish 
understanding of the afterlife.  Conservative Judaism in its current form 
may chose to believe what ever they wish to, but they are a relatively 
recent development and do not reflect the beliefs of Jews in the rest of the 
world or those prior to 1800.  Throwing it out is like asking us to take 
what Pat Robertson says as the sole voice of Christians and then lecturing 
Christians on what they think or believe from that basis.

>From Wikipedia

“Hebrew Bible refers to the common portions of the Jewish and Christian 
canons.  …the term Hebrew Bible only corresponds to the Old Testament in use 
by the Protestant denominations.”

They go on to say that the term Hebrew Bible is a cooked up job by some in 
acedemia to avoid using Tanakh or Old Testement.  They acknowledge that 
Christians added a number of texts which do not fit into Tanakh.

You finsihed off with this;

“Ralph: I quoted from Jewish sources but you ignored them. So who is
anti-Semitic? Knock off the name calling, Phil.

Ralph dear boy, I am Jewish.  You figure I am self hating?  I ignored one 
reference in an abundance of goop you peddled and passed on to you numerous 
references from Jewish sources that proved that you were wrong.

Rabbinic Jewish thought as practiced from 200 BCE on has always believed in 
an afterlife.  They have referenced those beliefs clearly and discuss them 
in Talmud.  They further reference that to Tanakh.

And I have been quite mild to you Ralph, not Nasty.  The things you write 
are not a lot different than the routines written by the Neo-Nazis on their 
anti-Talmudic websites.  I realize that you are not a skin head or a Nazi 
and simply asked you to stop writing your personal ideas claiming you knew 
what Jewish writings mean or say.  You are being insensitive and 
anti-Semitic by doing so.  I did not say or claim that your anti-Semitism 
was deliberate, just a lack of sensitivity.

Unlike yourself, Ralph, I have yet to suggest that you are uneducated, which 
is not only untrue, but is indeed name calling.  I would have to say 
however, that you are obviously ignorant and strongly in need of study.  
Please go to the site on Olam HaBa that I previously sent you, get a little 
education before trying to lay claims and then maybe you can talk cogently.

Regardless, leave Jewish participation at the door when you decide next to 
throw yourself like a rabid wolf at the CCers.

Phil Nisbet

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