[Vision2020] Sorry Ralph, your still wrong

[Phil Nisbet]

Yes Ralph, you are indeed an anti-Semite.  You may not mean to be, but you 
are way out of your depths trying to tell a Jew what his beliefs are.

The term Hebrew Bible is a Christian one and it is not Tanakh and will not 
be even if it is printed in Ivrit.  Which exact shul did you find a Hebrew 
Bible in, or is it that you have some printing by some Christian 
organization?

And just a minor news flash for you Ralph, Tanakh is only one source.  There 
is the written and the oral law and on top of that there are rulings and 
discussions in a pretty continuous stream for over the last 2400 years.

I posted directly to you the current wisdom from a pretty learned Rabbi at 
aish.com and what do you reply with?

“(John L. McKenzie, S.T.D., in The New Jerome Biblical Commentary, 1990. p. 
1313).”

Well gosh, what have we here, the ideas on what Jews think from some 
Christian theologian.

I will try one more time to educate you;

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_heavenhell.htm


So, if you want to take up with Rabbi Shraga Simmons in Jerusalem, please 
feel free and you can email him at http://www.aish.com/ that is if you 
figure that just maybe a Rabbi might know a tad more than your Christian 
minister does about what Jewish beliefs are.

You also wrote this little Gem

“Nisbet also refuses to recognize that there is no life after death in
the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament). In fact, he can't show us one
single person in the Tanakh who died and went to heaven.”

I do not own one of your Christian Hebrew Bibles, so how the heck am I gone 
to find what you people put in there.  For all I know you have centerfolds 
in there of Angelina Jolie.

But if you go back to what the Rabbi kindly explains, in Kohelet is the 
passage, "The dust will return to the ground as it was, and the spirit will 
return to G-d who gave it."

If you wish to read up a little you can also hit this one;

http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to 
everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.  Daniel 12:2

So the Olam HaBa is indeed discussed in Tanakh and further explained in the 
oral law and is one of the 13 Principles of the faith.

1.	G-d exists
2.	G-d is one and unique
3.	G-d is incorporeal
4.	G-d is eternal
5.	Prayer is to be directed to G-d alone and to no other
6.	The words of the prophets are true
7.	Moses's prophecies are true, and Moses was the greatest of the prophets
8.	The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings 
now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses
9.	There will be no other Torah
10.	G-d knows the thoughts and deeds of men
11.	G-d will reward the good and punish the wicked
12.	The Messiah will come
13.	The dead will be resurrected

So if the Rambam says that these are the basics of Jewish belief, why is it 
that your Christian Minister is to be believed in preference to he of whom 
it was said, “Between Moses and Moses there was none like unto Moses” ?

So, Ralph, your trying to claim that you are some sort of guru on what Jews 
believe was indeed insensitive anti-Semitism.  What we believe is not part 
of your discussion of Christian ideals and morality and the statements you 
made about Jewish beliefs were completely and utterly wrong.

As for Christians using the Bible for justification of slavery, this has 
what to do with me?  I think I clearly stated and have on this list in the 
past that any use of Tanakh to justify slavery is unwarranted.  I would also 
point out to you that Bartoleme De Las Casas quite appropriately used the 
actual ideals formed in Tanakh to force the Spanish Crown into freeing 
Indian Slaves, so the Catholics did get the picture even if somewhat 
belatedly.

I will leave it to the Catholics here to hammer you on that one.

You also wrote this finale;

“Ralph: I was commenting on Christian misuse of the Bible, as anyone can 
plainly see. But Phil Nisbet has shown us that some Jews also misuse the 
Bible.”

You may have been commenting on the Christian Bible, but you did so using 
examples of what you claimed Jews believe and have within our sacred texts.  
The claims you made were wrong and had no place in your particular 
discussion.  If you want to rant back and forth with Doug Wilson or any of 
his following, you can feel free to do so, but do not bring US into your 
rants.  Doing so is anti-Semitic and you simply need to knock it off.


Phil Nisbet

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