Fw: [Vision2020] Does Jerry Schutz have a little secret?
Pat Kraut
pkraut at moscow.com
Wed Aug 10 23:21:59 PDT 2005
I sent this once but it didn't appear on the list so I am resending it. If
someone gets it twice I apologize.
Even Britain has now decided that the Hyde park talk of late needs to be
monitored more what with the bombings. However, and it is a big however, it
seems to me that if we can find out who did this despicable act and banish
them that will help. Self monitoring will help in the sense that if we all
let this person know that we will not accept this behavior they will just go
away...one can hope. For myself I know that many who just 'lurk' have spoken
to me in the community having read my name here tell me that some on this
site do not realize that just because someone is silent does not mean that
they are won to another's viewpoint. It only means that they have realized
that further talk is useless. There are those on this site who have no
interest in learning anything new they know what they know and are only
willing to change the rest of the world to meet their mindset no matter how
much of a minority they are. Silence is not a form of agreement. If this
site is going to be overwhelmed with a few who want to have full control of
the site then it really isn't a 'Moscow' site it is a site for the party of
the few. I believe that self monitoring has indeed worked in that there are
so many who only 'lurk' and no longer post. However the site is supposed to
be for all and not the few so maybe a revamp is a good thing.
PK
----- Original Message -----
From: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
To: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>; "Linda Pall" <lpall at moscow.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Does Jerry Schutz have a little secret?
Bill
I concur. Part of the price one must pay for an open and free exchange is
some warts. If it is moderated, not only does First Step assume some
liability and extra expense but it runs the risk of being partisan. I would
urge every on to be more civil however.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: "Bill London" london at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 11:20:03 -0700
To: "Linda Pall" lpall at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Does Jerry Schutz have a little secret?
> L-
> Your question (is it time to kill Vision 2020 or at least completely
> reorganize it?) is one most of us asked and discussed following this
latest
> sleazy posting.
>
> And here's my response: while I am disgusted and disappointed in some of
> what I read on Vision 2020, I do not want to change its essential
> non-moderated, free and open character.
>
> These same issues have been raised and discussed periodically over the
last
> decade as various sleazy posters have come close to derailing this list.
> And every time, the V2020 subscribers have clearly agreed: warts and all,
> they like this open forum. We have already seen that kind of support from
> the subscribers following this latest crisis.
>
> I liken this to a self-bailing rowboat. The boat takes on water, but is
> able to right itself and dump the water back out. Until the next big
wave.
>
> My biggest concern (and an issue raised often by subscribers in
discussions
> of V2020's organizational form) is the who moderates the list question.
> Right now, with a non-moderated list, our beloved First Step (which hosts
> this list and provides hours of maintenance for free) accepts no
> responsibility for the content. For an analogy, think that they provide
the
> soapbox in Hyde Park. However, if the list is moderated, First Step has
> legal responsibility...which could be expensive. And furthermore, who
would
> provide the time and expertise to moderate the list?
>
> No subscribers indicated that they wanted to pay for V2020. I think it
> should remain a free and open service.
> BL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Pall" <lpall at moscow.com>
> To: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 4:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Does Jerry Schutz have a little secret?
>
>
> > Dear Bill and the 600 Subscribers of Vision2020:
> >
> > That tore it. The anonymous, libelous posting that prompted your
response,
> > Bill, and mine here is so far beyond what might even possibly be
> acceptable
> > that it has finally and profoundly drug down what was once an
interesting,
> > quirky, informative and even sometimes insightful exchange of views.
> >
> > I believe it is time to have a moderated list OR to find some other
means
> to
> > support the list, i.e., subscriptions or some similar mechanism. The
"free
> > to be a libelous spewer" status of anonymous postings should be ended.
> >
> > While there are some who may cheer at the demise of Vision2020, I
cannot.
> I
> > can only express real sadness about the state of our civic discourse.
> >
> > Bill, I believe you hold the keys on this, since this was really the
> progeny
> > of the Vision 2020 effort years ago. If anyone 'owns' the list, you do.
> Ask
> > First Step to take it down because it needs to be reformed. In its
present
> > condition, it has lost its way.
> >
> > Thank you for your efforts to encourage Moscow's conversation; I wish it
> > could be civil again.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Linda Pall
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
> > To: <wil_hendrick at hotmail.com>
> > Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 3:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Does Jerry Schutz have a little secret?
> >
> >
> > > to the anonymous poster hiding behind the Wil Hendrick hotmail
account:
> > >
> > > Coward that you are, you could not have considered the impact of your
> > > writing....not just on the people you have identified, as well as
their
> > > friends and families...but also on this public communication system,
> > Vision
> > > 2020.
> > >
> > > Mean, petty, disgusting "outings" of home addresses, old gossip, home
> > phone
> > > numbers, and other very personal information has the power to destroy
> > V2020.
> > >
> > > Let's move back to discussing issues and ideas.
> > >
> > > BL
> > >
> > > _____________________________________________________
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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