[Vision2020] Quinlan/NOTP #61
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 7 20:43:48 PDT 2005
"I'm hesitant to address this to Donovan because I
believe there's a basic point in his disagreement with
Dr. Quinlan's work"--- Keely Mix
Yes, there is a basic point. It is ill-researched and
dishonest.
Let me hit on FEW points where Dr. Quinlan is wrong.
First, Fred Phelps never came to Moscow, he went to
McCall. If the guy is concerned with human rights, why
did he not know this fact?
http://www.argonaut.uidaho.edu/archives/071202/news1.html
Second, the reason the GSA flag was burned had nothing
to do with discrimination against gays and lesbians,
one the perpetrators was gay.
Third, the student killed and found on Moscow Mountain
was gay, but he was not killed because he was gay.
Finally, trying to tie all that into Doug Wilson is
way over the top!
When you get all your information wrong, and do and
say outrageous things that are easily proved false or
very frivolous you do damage progressive causes.
So yes Keely, I do have a problem with Dr. Quinlan's
work. As I have trouble with all work that is
dishonest and presents false information to support
their statements. Especially from a researcher, doctor
and teacher speaking publicly and attacking other
members of the community.
We need to be honest and fair, even with those that we
disagree with.
Donovan J Arnold
posted today on Not
On
The Palouse, that is, unfortunately, shared by many
people in Moscow
who
consider themselves open, progressive, and
activism-minded. I hope
this
would shed some light on why some of us howl mightily
and continually
about
the activities of Christ Church.
I would bet my last penny, Donovan, on the fact that
not only does
bigotry
exist in many places in Moscow, but also that Dr.
Quinlan is opposed to
it
in all forms. That would seem hardly necessary to
debate. You appear
to be
convinced that the entire font from which his
opposition to the civic
conduct of Christ Church flows is a dislike for or
disagreement with
Doug
Wilson's religious views.
Short of Sean's adding ". . . because of his religious
views, which I
find
icky" to every instance of the Kirk's unfortunate
engagement with the
community, I doubt that you would be satisfied with
the motives behind
his
commentary. Consider this, however:
Ideas have consequences.
If I believe that the heralding of the Confederacy as
an example of
genuine
Christian community is an important tenet of my public
witness, then I
will
embrace arguments to make the obvious evil in that
society appear to be
benign. If I uphold the Bible as the only guide for
faith and conduct
for
the Christian, I would try to justify the evil with
Scripture. And if
I
were convinced that I and others like me were chosen
from eternity to
live
with God, while others were chosen from eternity to be
created and then
tossed into Hell, and both destinies exist equally for
his good
pleasure,
then I might find ways to ensconce myself in
privilege, comfort,
oblivion
and irrelevance in regards to the world around me, and
I would either
gleefully mock those on the "outside," or else become
so insulated as
to not
grasp the hurt I caused -- hurt not only to the Gospel
of Christ, but
to the
fabric of the community I live in. Finally, if I
believed that the
minor
elements of my faith were of the highest priority and
the major
elements
somewhat less so, I might go ahead and cause further
offense by
insisting on
"rights" and not yielding to the legitimate comfort or
desires of
others.
In short, a person's beliefs tend to dictate their
behavior. Whether
those
beliefs are religious, political, or simply matters of
tradition, they
have
consequences, and it is fair -- sometimes necessary --
to protest those
consequences, no matter how sincerely held the belief
behind them might
be.
When one is discussing the activities of a religious
figure, it seems
fair
to assume that he or she has a foundation of religious
beliefs --
beliefs
everyone gets to have, but beliefs that deserve
scrutiny if they result
in
bad behavior. Not all ideas are true, not all ideas
are equally good,
and
not all ideas get a pass in the marketplace because of
the mistaken
idea
that they are. I think it's time for us to realize
that here in
Moscow.
For what it's worth, the public testimony of Christ
Church is causing
damage
to the Gospel I've given my life to and the community
I live in. If my
--
our -- confronting it is getting tedious and annoying,
then please
consider
that we'd rather not have anything to fight.
keely emerine mix
--- keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
> I'm hesitant to address this to Donovan because I
> believe there's a basic
> point in his disagreement with Dr. Quinlan's work,
> posted today on Not On
> The Palouse, that is, unfortunately, shared by many
> people in Moscow who
> consider themselves open, progressive, and
> activism-minded. I hope this
> would shed some light on why some of us howl
> mightily and continually about
> the activities of Christ Church.
>
> I would bet my last penny, Donovan, on the fact that
> not only does bigotry
> exist in many places in Moscow, but also that Dr.
> Quinlan is opposed to it
> in all forms. That would seem hardly necessary to
> debate. You appear to be
> convinced that the entire font from which his
> opposition to the civic
> conduct of Christ Church flows is a dislike for or
> disagreement with Doug
> Wilson's religious views.
>
> Short of Sean's adding ". . . because of his
> religious views, which I find
> icky" to every instance of the Kirk's unfortunate
> engagement with the
> community, I doubt that you would be satisfied with
> the motives behind his
> commentary. Consider this, however:
>
> Ideas have consequences.
>
> If I believe that the heralding of the Confederacy
> as an example of genuine
> Christian community is an important tenet of my
> public witness, then I will
> embrace arguments to make the obvious evil in that
> society appear to be
> benign. If I uphold the Bible as the only guide for
> faith and conduct for
> the Christian, I would try to justify the evil with
> Scripture. And if I
> were convinced that I and others like me were chosen
> from eternity to live
> with God, while others were chosen from eternity to
> be created and then
> tossed into Hell, and both destinies exist equally
> for his good pleasure,
> then I might find ways to ensconce myself in
> privilege, comfort, oblivion
> and irrelevance in regards to the world around me,
> and I would either
> gleefully mock those on the "outside," or else
> become so insulated as to not
> grasp the hurt I caused -- hurt not only to the
> Gospel of Christ, but to the
> fabric of the community I live in. Finally, if I
> believed that the minor
> elements of my faith were of the highest priority
> and the major elements
> somewhat less so, I might go ahead and cause further
> offense by insisting on
> "rights" and not yielding to the legitimate comfort
> or desires of others.
>
> In short, a person's beliefs tend to dictate their
> behavior. Whether those
> beliefs are religious, political, or simply matters
> of tradition, they have
> consequences, and it is fair -- sometimes necessary
> -- to protest those
> consequences, no matter how sincerely held the
> belief behind them might be.
> When one is discussing the activities of a religious
> figure, it seems fair
> to assume that he or she has a foundation of
> religious beliefs -- beliefs
> everyone gets to have, but beliefs that deserve
> scrutiny if they result in
> bad behavior. Not all ideas are true, not all ideas
> are equally good, and
> not all ideas get a pass in the marketplace because
> of the mistaken idea
> that they are. I think it's time for us to realize
> that here in Moscow.
>
> For what it's worth, the public testimony of Christ
> Church is causing damage
> to the Gospel I've given my life to and the
> community I live in. If my --
> our -- confronting it is getting tedious and
> annoying, then please consider
> that we'd rather not have anything to fight.
>
> keely emerine mix
>
>
>
>
> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>,
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> CC: quinlan at uidaho.edu
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Not On The Palouse, Not
> Ever (Update #61)
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:59:40 -0700 (PDT)
>
> While I agree with Dr. Quinlan in principle that
> bigotry exists in Moscow, especially toward the
> poor,
> disabled, minorities, elderly, gay and lesbians, and
> the religious, I think he undermines his position
> when
> he gets most of his examples of information
> incorrect,
> or translates something into being discrimination
> when
> it is not.
>
> Dr. Quinlan needs to make sure his information is
> correct, otherwise he just undermines all of his
> points. I can list many more pieces of information
> that give evidence of discrimination in this town
> that
> hurt people everyday, and sadly, most are from the
> University of Idaho, not Christ Church.
>
> Dr. Quinlan, I believe, wrote this piece to attack
> Doug Wilson for his religious beliefs and ideology,
> not to point out instances of discrimination against
> in Moscow. He is trying to use an emotional appeal
> to
> those that hate discrimination.
>
> In other words, he is being intellectually
> dishonest.
> If discrimination is the target, why not start with
> the University's policies that discriminate? If Mr.
> Wilson's religious ideology is the problem, attack
> the
> ideology.
>
>
> Donovan J Arnold
>
>
>
>
> --- Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> > Greetings Visionaires -
> >
> > "Not On The Palouse, Not Ever (Update #61)"
> consists
> > of:
> >
> >
>
http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/BigVioPal_Quinlan.htm
> > Dr. Sean Quinlan (Assistant Professor of History,
> > University of Idaho)
> > details local indifference toward the community's
> > ever-expanding bigotry and
> > violence.
> >
> > A very, very special thanks and vote of sincere
> > appreciation to Dr. Quinlan
> > for saying what must be said.
> >
> > This article may also be accessed from the #9
> group
> > titled "Douglas Wilson
> > and the University of Idaho" at:
> >
> > http://www.tomandrodna.com.notonthepalouse
> >
> > Take care, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Not On The Palouse, Not Ever
> >
> > "What is objectionable, what is dangerous, about
> > extremists is not that they
> > are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The
> evil
> > is not what they say
> > about their cause, but what they say about their
> > opponents."
> >
> > -- Robert F. Kennedy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step
> > Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since
> 1994.
>
=== message truncated ===
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