[Vision2020] bid breakdown of construction costs
Mark Seman
FCS at Moscow.com
Wed Apr 20 02:06:11 PDT 2005
Phil,
I have not followed this thread very closely, but I would assume that people
involved understand what your are asking for. As Mike Curley expressed
there may not be any paper trail, but common sense would tell me that
correspondence or meeting minutes would have documented the process. The
planning process can get very complex, decisions get made, minds get
changed, new ideas come in, people forget what was decided on last - these
are just some of the obvious reasons for keeping records of the process. I
would doubt there is a single sheet summary or concise compilation of the
process. I would assume there has been a hefty written report developed
that describes the findings, outlines parameters, and in general, explains
the reasoning behind the whole process. This feasibility study, planning
report, or whatever they have titled the document will not be an exciting
read, but it would likely have the info you are wanting.
Mark
Mark Seman, Architect
Heather Seman, Landscape Architect
1404 East 'F' Street Moscow, Idaho 83843
v 208-883-3276 / f 208-883-0112
-----Original Message-----
From: cjs [mailto:cjs at turbonet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:11 AM
To: Mark Seman
Cc: vision2020 at Moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] bid breakdown of construction costs
Thank you Mark for such a "grown up" answer.
You are the architect and know the direct lingo. I am not. I appreciate you
taking the time to clarify what is the proper terminology and lingo.
What I am looking for is a piece of paper from the school board and/or the
facilites committee to the architect asking him for a cost estimate of what
the cost would be in remodeling the current HS. I understand this piece of
paper is called a "directive." After the architect receives this piece of
paper he then responds by giving another piece of paper to the asking party
with a cost breakdown of how he arrived at the remodel cost of 20.5 million.
In other words, the breakdown of the 20.5 million dollars it would cost to
remodel the existing HS.
If you could be so kind, since you know the correct language, could you tell
me how then I should be asking for these two pieces of paper?
Thanks Mark,
Phil
-----Original message-----
From: "Mark Seman" FCS at Moscow.com
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:00:29 -0700
To: "cjs" cjs at turbonet.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] bid breakdown of construction costs
> Phil, et al;
> I feel a need to chime in here for a bit to provide some clarification on
> terminology being tossed about. Architects often develop "opinions of
> probable costs" or "cost estimates" - very, very rarely do we have
anything
> to do with developing "bids." To lay people this may seem like a minor
> issue, but when using any industry lingo, nuances are inherent within the
> language and to be on the same page, people need to use & understand the
> same terminology. To me, a "bid" are very different from a "cost
estimate"
> or an "opinion of probable cost."
>
> "Construction costs" are those direct costs of permits, landfill/disposal,
> materials, labor and equipment to build a facility. "Project costs" will
> include "construction costs" and many other costs - potentially:
> architectural & engineering (A/E) fees, land acquisition, legal fees,
soils
> testing, etc.
>
> Also, on an earlier post you were seeking info on the "directive" given to
> the architect for the HS remodel. You are right that a "scope of work"
> would have been defined so quality and quantity could be reasonably known
> and an "opinion of probable cost" or a "cost estimate" could then be
> developed. I think you were interested in how the "scope of work" was
> defined.
>
> Mark
>
> Mark Seman, Architect
> Heather Seman, Landscape Architect
> 1404 East 'F' Street Moscow, Idaho 83843
> v 208-883-3276 / f 208-883-0112
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of cjs
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:02 AM
> To: keely emerinemix
> Cc: VISION2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] bid breakdown of construction costs
>
>
> Keely,
>
> Could you ask Hummel architects for the "bid breakdown" of construction
> costs for the "new HS" PLEASE? Please do not say ask them yourself. Many
of
> us have and will not even get a return phone call. Should I "officially"
ask
> the school board for it?
>
> Phil
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: "keely emerinemix" kjajmix1 at msn.com
> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:33:33 -0700
> To: donovanarnold at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bond Levy for New University Of Idaho
>
> >
> >
> > Donovan, please keep in mind that no one is saying that the current HS
> > building is falling down, decrepit or unsafe structurally -- there are
> > security concerns from its layout, but I think you are confused on this
> > point. What we're saying is that it's educationally unsuitable for
> reasons
> > far too numerous to go into again now, at least before morning coffee.
> >
> > You might want to check through the information that I'm sure you
gathered
> > during the two-year facilities process before you quite possibly make a
> > decision on an incorrect premise. Gosh, even the information you could
> have
> > gotten since February should be sufficient, in case I'm mistaken
regarding
> > the level of your prior interest and involvement.
> >
> > keely
> >
> > From: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>
> > To: pkraut at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bond Levy for New University Of Idaho
> > Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:28:27 -0700
> >
> > I think you just want a new High School, even if it is unfinished. If
you
> > cared about the safety of the kids, and really thought the building was
> old
> > and unsafe you would not tolerate the occupancy of other students in
that
> > buildings. If it is unsafe for the regular teens now, it should also be
> > unsafe for teen age alternative high school students too. That is no
> > brainier.
> >
> > Take Care,
> >
> > Donovan J Arnold
> >
> > >From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> > >To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bond Levy for New University Of Idaho
> > >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:15:24 -0700
> > >
> > >What it will cost and how much needs to be changed for grade school
> > >children
> > >is very different from teens. I really do think you are just trying to
be
> > >as
> > >difficult as possible.
> > >PK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>
> > >To: <pkraut at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 3:22 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bond Levy for New University Of Idaho
> > >
> > >
> > >Pat,
> > >
> > >I think you missed the logic bus. The "unsafe building" you are
referring
> > >to
> > >is going to be the home for elementary children and later alternative
> high
> > >school students.
> > >
> > >Under your thinking are we not putting elementary children in harms way
> > >instead of teenagers? Who would you rather have in an unsafe building
> Pat,
> > >a
> > >6 year old, or a 16 year old?
> > >
> > >Take Care,
> > >
> > >Donovan J Arnold
> > >PS, for the record, I do not think the building is unsafe, it was Ms.
> Kraut
> > >that has stated this. I know the MSD would not permit our children in
an
> > >unsafe HS.
> > >
> > > >From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
> > > >To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bond Levy for New University Of Idaho
> > > >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:20:09 -0700
> > > >
> > > >My children attended Troy Idaho schools in the late 70's to early
80's
> > >when
> > > >they had tried to 'remodel' the school. One of the boys attened a
> 'gifted
> > > >and talented class' in the furnace room! But, there were those who
> > >insisted
> > > >that the building was 'good enough' then. The building is old in so
> many
> > > >ways that it isn't safe! We need a new school! Our taxes, rents all
> will
> > >go
> > > >up no matter what we do. My hope is to pay for something that I
really
> > >want
> > > >and not another 1912 building so I will be voting for the new school.
> > > >PK
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: DonaldH675 at aol.com
> > > > To: donovanarnold at hotmail.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 7:49 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Bond Levy for New University Of Idaho
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear Donovan'
> > > > I worked at facilities as the university engineer responsible for
> > > >reviewing new building plans for mechanical/electrical installation
and
> > >to
> > > >provide input on the same subjects as well as utility upgrades
> > >(electrical,
> > > >water, sewer, power plant, etc.) for several years (20) and if you
> would
> > > >like to check the records you will find that virtually everyone of
your
> > > >reasons for the supposed "new University of Idaho" are true. Why do
you
> > > >think we tore down so many old buildings and opted to build new
rather
> > >than
> > > >remodel? And just for starters I seriously doubt that you could even
> fix
> > > >all of the deficiencies of the present buildings for the amount you
> have
> > > >proposed let alone build a new campus. When I retired about six years
> ago
> > > >the documented deferred maintenance list exceeded 300,000,000
dollars.
> > > > As a facilities person I would like to ask you a question? Do you
> > >repair
> > > >your cars over and over and over until they are absolutely so out of
> date
> > > >that they are no longer functional or do you buy a newer car when the
> old
> > > >one no longer meets your needs? Buildings follow the same functional
> > > >obsolescence pattern and need to be replaced when they no longer meet
> the
> > > >needs of the present.
> > > > My wife attended Moscow High School in the late 50's/early 60's
and
> it
> > > >was inadequate then so they remodeled. It remained inadequate.
> > > > My children attended Moscow High School in the 80's and 90's and
it
> > >was
> > > >inadequate then so they remodeled. It was still inadequate.
> > > > My grandchildren are attending now and it is still inadequate and
> > >people
> > > >still think they can fix it by remodeling. In my mind taking the same
> > > >action over and over and expecting different results are a good
> > >definition
> > > >of delusion if not outright mental illness or maybe just plain
> ignorance.
> > > > I also have some problems with the current bond plan but am
willing
> to
> > > >continue the mental illness with Russell and West Park (why are we
> > > >remodeling two ugly, functionally obsolescent buildings when for
> roughly
> > > >the same money we could get a new elementary school) if we get one
new
> > > >facility. In my opinion the only justification for remodeling is a
> > >historic
> > > >example of a particular style of architecture or an old building that
> is
> > >so
> > > >well built that the remodel can bring it to modern standards of
> > > >functionality.
> > > >
> > > > Don Huskey
> > > > Captain, USMC (Ret)
> > > > BSEE, MPA, MBA
> > > > "One cannot level one's moral lance at every evil in the universe.
> > >There
> > > >are just too many of them. But you can do something, and the
difference
> > > >between doing something and doing nothing is everything." Daniel
> Berrigan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >---
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_____________________________________________________
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> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> >
> >
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> communities
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> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
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