Opps! I just noticed that the subject line include a vote no. I want you to
know that I would vote yes to move the school.
PK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Levy (Vote No)
"From my own experiences, the college students don't even wait for a car to
stop, they just cross - wherever, whenever they please. (Try going down 6th
street at any given time during the day or night dodging the many students
there.) The area of my concern is between the Furniture Store to the mall
on Highway 8...the college kids just get in the middle of the road and play
"chicken" with traffic until they get across. There are two or three very
clearly marked crossings on that stretch of road but those are ignored
because these kids want to cross THEIR way at THEIR timeframe. Forget the
drivers trying to negotiate around other cars much less having to avoid the
idiots in the middle of a major highway. This is occurring during hours
that do not correspond with school hours. I've had to dodge these people as
early as 6am or late as 10pm because they wanted to go to Baskins for a
coffee or a soda. Funny, too, how the VAST majority of the people doing
this type of thing are college kids - the local kids seem to be able to
follow the road laws and cross where they should."
I was almost in a six car pile up near Tri State recently because a driver
suddenly stopped for one of the stupid students. I have heard discussions
that an overpass might help...but it doesn't in Pullman. The students there
cross wherever and whenever they want also. They just don't care about
anyone but themselves. Or they think they will just sue and get millions.
But, it is a problem that I don't know if lights would help at all.
I am one who would very much like to see the high school out of downtown.
You can fix the traffic problem by closing campus and they are not allowed
to leave. Yeah, yeah I hear the city business's screaming also. But, in the
long run if we did it now it would save us many headaches sometime down the
road.
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Levy (Vote No)
Mr.. Donovan;
I am not sure who YOU are, but what is obvious is the bitterness in your
postings. What's up with that?
I am not sure where you get your information or why you think you are some
kind of authority on these different matters, but I do wish you'd get some
of them clear.
The Special Education funding has nothing to do with the local District
funding, it comes from the Feds and the State - both of which have been so
severely reduced and crippled by Bush's Administration and therefore the
State that what services were available two years ago are not as readily
available this year and they are facing new reductions next year. The
Special Ed teachers alone are seeing their numbers reduced. Do you have the
education to teach children who do not have the same abilities as others?
Can you spend HOURS of each day in a classroom inadequately furnished or
supplied that it can turn into more of a babysitting service than an
educational service? Or are you one of those that doesn't believe in
integrating the Special Needs child?
Building the bridges over State Highway 8 (by the mall) is considered a road
"correction" or amendment and THAT comes from the State - which has cut road
construction monies state-wide.
IF you have had college students/parents complaining to you about the lack
of bridges, in what capacity are they doing that? Do you work for the City
or State?
>From my own experiences, the college students don't even wait for a car to
stop, they just cross - wherever, whenever they please. (Try going down 6th
street at any given time during the day or night dodging the many students
there.) The area of my concern is between the Furniture Store to the mall
on Highway 8...the college kids just get in the middle of the road and play
"chicken" with traffic until they get across. There are two or three very
clearly marked crossings on that stretch of road but those are ignored
because these kids want to cross THEIR way at THEIR timeframe. Forget the
drivers trying to negotiate around other cars much less having to avoid the
idiots in the middle of a major highway. This is occurring during hours
that do not correspond with school hours. I've had to dodge these people as
early as 6am or late as 10pm because they wanted to go to Baskins for a
coffee or a soda. Funny, too, how the VAST majority of the people doing
this type of thing are college kids - the local kids seem to be able to
follow the road laws and cross where they should.
Personally, I'd love to see more traffic lights down that stretch of road
than anything else...whole lot cheaper and it totally addresses the issue of
people trying to cross a heavily trafficked area.
As far as the low income people and those students on the lunch program -
most of them do not consider themselves low income but they do fit within
the FEDERAL guidelines and therefore are eligible for the low-cost/no-cost
lunches. Again, this is a FEDERAL program with FEDERAL funds involved. You
can't add to it nor can you subtract from it with a bond...the Feds take
care of that for you.
Your statement
"If we get them to pay teachers more, we would not have the money to
>pay it would we? But even so, there are numerous other city workers that
>are grossly underpaid. We can also hire more teachers, specialists, and
>aides to assist in the classroom, especially in regards to special
>education."
is rather self-defeating...this is a STATE funding issue, not a local one.
Again, you need to be talking to our local legislators about getting more
funding for the teachers from the State - we don't set those locally.
And since you do not know me or my family you placing your judgment on me
about how I feel about the poor is going to be ignored. Our family has not
made over $20K annually in over 25 years,and the fact is that we have two
children who are handicapped, one severely.
As far as student population, I am not sure where you are getting your
figures, but we saw a big increase just this year alone - some of it due to
the closing of one charter school and the decrease in Logos (where do you
suppose they go to when they still want their children in a school?) but a
lot of it has to do with an increase in families moving to the area to
attend the University. (The UI just announced that they saw a HUGE increase
in interest this last Vandal Friday, implying that a big increase in student
population can be expected.) We have seen a steady increase in population
just in the 15 years we have lived here. The classes are much more crowded,
the halls are near impossible to walk through during between-class-times and
before/after school, the gyms are in need of being, at the very least,
brought up to 2005 standards, the two elementary schools I mentioned (which
you ignored) are SO old and SO out of date as to be almost in the same
category as what the Troy school was, etc.
With the new sub-divisions going up every year more families are moving into
the area with school-aged children...where do you suggest we seat them? The
classroom sizes are mandated to be only so much and MOST of them are
exceeding those numbers...simply to do lack of space. Have you been to
McDonalds lately? They are so full there was talk of a waiting list even
for the people who live in their area. Meanwhile, their children would have
to be bussed to another school that has an empty space to place a
desk/chair. Many of the classrooms don't use desks anymore, they use tables
so they can seat more children.
West Park has been using mobile units for years. They are very old and very
much in need of replacement. Russell is SO old that the walls themselves
are practically screaming "fix me or just tear me down." The stairs that
lead to the street to the Moscow Library are so bad, I don't use them
anymore. When was the last time you even went to those schools and watched
what the teachers have to do just to move around the room?
Just looking at the parking situation by the High School; (parking? What
parking?) and the really, really bad state the parking area at the Junior
High, is enough to make a normal person cringe.
When was the last time you spoke to the teachers of any of the schools and
asked them what they needed to get their classes working and the students
properly serviced? I am not talking about a "wish" list that is
unreasonable, just that basic necessities be furnished - like desks/chairs
that don't have to be shared, chalkboards, books, computers, supplies, etc.
I totally resent the fact that a lot of my children's school lessons are not
gleaned from their own books but rather from copies that the teachers have
to make due to a lack of funds to buy enough books. The fact is that each
year requests for donations of school supplies has seen a very steady
increase in the last 10 years - which is sad.
These things are not due to mis-handling of District monies or of someone
stealing from the District...it is simply due to old buildings, increase in
population and new demands for better education of the children who will be
going out into the world and need to be ready for what they find.
You sound very much like members of the CC that I had to sit and listen to,
that it makes me wonder if you are not a part of them. Either that or you
simply do not have all the facts you need to make a sound decision.
If you are not a school-aged parent yet, you have an experience waiting for
you. For those of us that have and have had children in the schools over
these last 10-15 years know we need improvements and we need them now. Why
wait until we are ALL in the state that Troy was? Why wait until a law
suite has to be filed in order to get our kids properly educated?
Do I have unlimited funds? No, but neither do I have unlimited time for my
children to get what they need for a healthy and well prepared future.
>From: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>
>To: privatejf32 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] School Levy (Vote No)
>Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 08:33:13 -0700
>
>Jford, or whoever you are, you write, "When was the last time you even
>stepped foot in the High School?" 1992, and it was ust renovated and more
>classroom space was added, despite no real increase in student population.
>
>You continue on, "When was the last time you tried to walk the halls of the
>Junior High during class change over?" Last semester, it was about the same
>as when I was in junior high.
>
>"What homeless in Moscow do you see the need to spend $29mil on"
>
>I said low income and homeless. Look and see how many students are on a
>subsidized lunch program. The homeless shelter in Moscow is also very under
>funded and nearly went bankrupt and was almost forced to shut down. It is
>too bad that your do not deem them worthy of support.
>
>"With Idaho Housing, is there a real need for MORE housing in Moscow?"
>There is a 3-10 year waiting period to get into Idaho Public Housing
>(depending on where in Idaho), if someone is able to make it through all
>the red tape. Further, subsidized housing in Moscow is more expensive in
>Moscow then unsubsidized housing is in Spokane, Lewiston, Pullman, and
>Boise.
>
>"Teacher salaries not an issue we can settle locally, is it? Aren't they
>paid by the state standards? Wouldn't your argument be better placed at
>the feet of the legislators?"
>
>If we get them to pay teachers more, we would not have the money to pay it
>would we? But even so, there are numerous other city workers that are
>grossly underpaid. We can also hire more teachers, specialists, and aides
>to assist in the classroom, especially in regards to special education.
>
>"Just how many "crosswalk bridges" can Moscow support or even should
>support?" As many is needed to make sure K-12 students can cross 6th
>street, Dst. Street, and college students can cross Third street safely.
>Many parents have complained to me how unsafe they feel about their
>children crossing these roads. College students have complained to me about
>trying to cross Third Street, not wanting to walk all the way downtown to
>cross Third because cars will not stop for them.
>
>"The only issue you bring up that merits consideration is the water."
>
>Well, I am sorry that the welfare of the poor and the safety of children
>and college students crossing busy streets to get to school does not merit
>your consideration.
>
>I also find it interesting that you think people in Moscow are sitting on a
>big bag of cash and just being stingy about sharing and not consider the
>fact that just maybe 70% of Moscow Residents are broke and are not to sure
>about their financial future to have two High Schools when the student
>population has not seen an serious increase in student population since the
>1950s.
>
>"It is rather obvious you "know not of which you speak" very well."
>
>If is obvious you do not know how to speak every well and not aware of the
>problems facing parents and students in Moscow.
>
>"Simply put, when was the last time you did anything ACTIVE besides
>typing?"
>
>There are many people in Moscow that have done much more than me. However,
>I have logged many hundreds of hours doing community service for Moscow in
>just the last few years, including the high school and junior high, so free
>to attack me all you want. I am not perfect, but I think I hold my end,
>and I have the right to speak out and ask questions about the construction
>of a new school in my community, and about my old high school. And I will.
>
>You have not proven to me the need of a new high school, in fact, I am
>leaning more strongly against it because your only response to my questions
>of concern has been to attack students and the welfare of the poor. This
>shows a lack or real need and more of someone trying to take advantage of
>the good people of Moscow and support for education by creating a problem
>that does not exist. Moscow High School, is large enough and we like it
>where it is. You want to add more classrooms, update, repair, add a new
>science lab, a new computer lab, add more teachers, let us talk about that.
>But do not sell us a line of garbage about the school being too small. That
>is crap, and those of us that have been here for a few generations know it.
>Go wreck your own hometown, this is ours to wreck.
>
>
>Take Care,
>
>Donovan J Arnold
>
>
>Mr. Arnold;
>
>When was the last time you tried to walk the halls of the Junior High
>during class change over? When was the last time you looked, REALLY looked
>at the Russell and West Park Schools? Simply put, when was the last time
>you did anything ACTIVE besides typing?
>
>What homeless in Moscow do you see the need to spend $29mil on? With Idaho
>Housing, is there a real need for MORE housing in Moscow?
>
>Teacher salaries not an issue we can settle locally, is it? Aren't they
>paid by the state standards? Wouldn't your argument be better placed at
>the feet of the legislators?
>
>Just how many "crosswalk bridges" can Moscow support or even should
>support? I see the need for one that links the dorms to the mall area, but
>I certainly don't see the need for multiple ones especially since we do
>have plenty of crosswalks that the students refuse to use now. (Popular
>sport in Moscow is not Dodgeball but Dodgestudents.)
>
>The only issue you bring up that merits consideration is the water. But if
>people would stop over developing Moscow, that may take care of itself.
>Not to mention a WHOLE lot of rain...
>
>It is rather obvious you "know not of which you speak" very well.
>
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_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯