[Vision2020] Taxes and the Intoleristas

Mon Oct 11 07:55:38 PDT 2004

Saundra asks: " BTW, I'm also still wondering exactly *who* the Nasty Nine 
are...".  I'm not sure myself, but that's just enough to field a baseball 
team.  Great name for one, too.  Who wants to play and what position?        

                                      Carl Westberg Jr.

>From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>To: <DonaldH675 at aol.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Taxes and the Intoleristas
>Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:36:23 -0700
>
>Visionaries,
>
>As usual, I think Rose did an excellent job of elucidating *why* we -- she 
>& I
>*and* the rest of us who are concerned about a fair and equitable local 
>property
>tax burden -- are interested in property taxes in Latah County.
>
>Sadly, even though I think Rose did an excellent job, Dale Courtney
>(http://right-mind.us/) seems . . . predisposed to miss the points, which 
>are
>fairness, equity, playing by the rules, and respecting the law, ***not*** 
>using
>religion or theology or dogma to get away with *not* playing by the rules.
>
>(Now, I don't know Mr. Courtney well -- I've not met him in person -- but 
>he
>always seemed to be a bright guy to me.  I miss his participation in this 
>forum
>-- I learned from him.   While I took exception to his attacks of our local
>public schools -- and lots of other stuff as well -- I thought he was great 
>at
>identifying areas where there was real room for improvement, and I think he 
>did
>a good job of presenting articulate arguments of other views.
>
>I'm quite sorry he and others in Wilson World have chosen to blog/monologue
>rather than actually *participate* in discussions.  Clearly, he and the 
>clique
>with which he affiliates still read V2020 as evidenced by the bandwidth 
>used
>blogging about V2020 discussions.
>
>IMHO, that's kind of a strange approach to take for a group which professes 
>to
>want to be a *part* of our community.  Quite often, actions speak louder 
>than
>words, and this seems to me to be such a case.)
>
>That said, Mr. Courtney blogged:
>"Churches have not been taxed because of the admission that churches are an
>institution that is not under the authority of the State."
>
>SHAME ON Mr. Courtney . . . shame, shame, shame on him!  That is a patently
>false statement, and I've no doubt Mr. Courtney knows it.  Why he'd stoop 
>to
>such dishonest tactics to try to make his case is beyond me . . . maybe 
>it's
>another example of the revisionist history he & his ilk are so fond of.  I 
>mean,
>I know he *wishes* that's why churches are tax exempt, but it's just not 
>true .
>. . not true at all.  Indeed, for a church to have tax exempt status, the 
>church
>*must* adhere to rules specified by government, and there are legal 
>sanctions
>for claiming tax exempt status and not following the rules.  Does that 
>sound
>like churches aren't under the authority of the State?
>
>Mr. Courtney seems to spend a lot of bandwidth trying (unsuccessfully, I 
>hope)
>to convince his readers that Rose's & my (and other Intoleristas') interest 
>in
>fair and equitable property tax in Latah County is a sham . . . that what 
>we
>really want is "the entire removal of tax-exempt status for the church of
>America."
>
>For the record, nothing could be further from the truth, and I resent Mr.
>Courtney's attempt to, once again, play the Religion Card.  Stick to the 
>issues,
>man . . . don't try to cloud a clear local issue with your own paranoia!
>
>Rose & I challenged the property tax exemptions on three parcels:  one 
>parcel is
>owned by a church (Christ Church) and two are owned by a school (NSA), 
>which is
>a self-professed "self-governing sister institution" of Christ Church.  
>Now,
>I'll keep my fingers in check <g> to prevent digressing into an analysis of 
>what
>that really means when 70+% of the Trustees and 100% of the Executive 
>Council
>are made up of Christ Church's pastor and hierarchy  ;-)
>
>If we'd have had similar information, we would have taken the exact same 
>actions
>if the church had been the Church of Auntie Establishment or her brother
>institution the Church of Golf, and if the school had been Intolerista 
>Academy.
>The exact same actions!
>
>We've said before and I'll say it again:  we have no reason to believe that 
>most
>or all of the other non-profit organizations (including churches) in Latah
>County aren't following the law, and we don't have any objection to 
>property tax
>exemptions in accordance with existing (secular or not) law.  We have no 
>desire
>to eliminate property tax exemptions for churches or any other legitimate 
>group
>that receives this government benefit in accordance with the rules.  And, 
>that
>would be the *legal* interpretation of the rules, not what *Mr. Courtney* 
>thinks
>they ought to mean or what he and his buddies would like them to mean.
>
>Since Mr. Courtney has chosen not to participate here, I'm hoping one of 
>you
>will be able to answer a question for me:  what is "the church of 
>America"???
>Silly me, I thought there were *lots* of churches in America, and that the 
>First
>Amendment of our Constitution guarantees that there will *never* be *one*
>official church.  And, since Mr. Courtney made reference to the First 
>Amendment,
>we know he's familiar with it, so what in the world is he talking about 
>with
>respect to "the church of America"?  Somehow, I seriously doubt he's 
>concerned
>about non-Christian religions, or even about mainstream Christian religions
>since only *his* flavor of Christianity is "right."
>
>Heck, just look at our local phone book -- we've got a great variety of 
>churches
>right here in our community.  Which one(s) is/are Mr. Courtney worried 
>about
>losing tax-exempt status???
>
>I guess I'd suggest that he's concerned about his own church, and perhaps 
>that's
>because he knows a heck of a lot more about the inner workings of it than 
>the
>rest of us do.  Remember, it's Wilson World that wants to pass judgment and
>force the teeth of a desired theonomic reconstructionistic law on the rest 
>of us
>-- Christians and non-Christians alike -- who don't share their particular
>flavor of religion.
>
>And it's that, I contend, is what's "truly dangerous to our local society."
>
>I'm going to have to go back and change what I said at the beginning of 
>this
>post about missing Dale Courtney's participation here on V2020 . . . I hate 
>it
>when that happens  :-)  I've now gone back and read some of his archives, 
>and
>given the very lamentable level of vitriolic diatribe to which he's 
>descended,
>I'm glad to not have to read so much hatred & bitterness here.  If that's 
>what
>his flavor of Christianity has gotten him, I strongly suggest that he 
>consider
>switching churches to a loving Christian Church!  This area certainly has 
>many
>for him to choose from.
>
>BTW, I'm also still wondering exactly *who* the Nasty Nine are -- do any of 
>you
>know?  I've tried to come up with my own list about to whom they are 
>referring,
>but I always come up short.  Any ideas???
>
>PS  For those who don't know what an Intolerista is, please see the 
>following
>link:
>http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/images/intolerista.pdf
>
>
>Apparently One of the Nasty Nine and Proud Intolerista,
>Saundra Lund
>Moscow, ID
>
>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>nothing.
>-Edmund Burke
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] 
>On
>Behalf Of DonaldH675 at aol.com
>Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 2:32 PM
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Taxes and the Intoleristas
>
>Visionaries:
>
>One of the funny things about honest citizens, and I include my Intolerista
>colleagues in that group, is that we do expect people who receive 
>government
>services to help pay for the associated costs in so far as they are able.  
>I
>wouldn't characterize this expectation as "salivating" but, rather, as an
>awareness that there is no free lunch. To make our community a better place 
>for
>all residents we share a moral and legal obligation to pay taxes, including
>property taxes.  I like knowing that by paying my fair share the police, 
>fire,
>and sheriff departments protect us and our property.  I am glad that the 
>roads
>and streets are plowed and maintained, that children in need are fed, and 
>the
>poor can see a health care provider (at least in a few medical clinics in
>Moscow).  I like knowing that when people who live in town turn on their 
>kitchen
>faucets clean water will come out.
>
>I am familiar with "World Magazine" and actually spoke with Mark Bergin 
>last
>summer regarding the tax issue.  Mr. Bergin persisted in believing that 
>there is
>"a desire for among many residents to see his [Doug Wilson's] church 
>brought
>low"....an unsubstantiated sentiment apparently primed and stoked by Doug
>himself.  It is, after all, much nicer for Doug to paint himself (and his
>defenders) as Christian martyrs rather than Calvinistic deadbeats.  And 
>while
>that "courageous role" might play well to those folks who rely on Doug to
>describe local issues, it is not accurate reporting.
>
>Saundra and I have repeatedly, both in public and privately, maintained 
>that we
>are not arguing over Christ Church members understanding of dogma or 
>theological
>constructions.  We are interested and will remain interested and committed 
>to
>hold Doug Wilson, and the Elders (in so far as they have the capability to 
>act
>as individuals) accountable in observing applicable state and federal laws. 
>  The
>same laws that the rest of us, including Intoleristas, obey.
>
>According to Dale's posting: "Rev. Wilson says he is battling for a 
>principle:
>"if you start paying tax, you acknowledge state sovereignty, " he said.  
>"You're
>saying they have authority over your church."  Well, no.  Actually, in my
>opinion it means that you follow the directions Jesus gave:
>
>"Teacher, we know that you are true, and teach the way of God truthfully, 
>and
>care for no man; for you do not regard the position of men.  Tell us, then, 
>what
>you think.  Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?"  But Jesus, aware 
>of
>their malice, said, "Why put me to the test, you hypocrites?  Show me the 
>money
>for the tax.  And they brought him a coin.  And Jesus said to them, "Whose
>likeness and inscription is this?  They said, "Caesar's."  Then he said to 
>them.
>"Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the 
>things
>that are God's."  Matthew 22: 16 -21.
>
>I understand this text to mean, at least in part, don't try to hide 
>personal
>profit under the cloak of religious entitlement to avoid taxation, it 
>brings
>disgrace to the church and the justly earned title of hypocrite to the 
>those
>using the tactic.
>
>It does make me wonder what other taxes Doug Wilson et al. might be 
>avoiding. It
>is to be hoped that wiser minds than my own are mulling over that very 
>issue.
>
>Rose Huskey
>
>"One cannot level one's moral lance at every evil in the universe. There 
>are
>just too many of them. But you can do something, and the difference between
>doing something and doing nothing is everything." Daniel Berrigan
>
>
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