[Vision2020] Re: Nice Story about Nick Holt
Art Deco aka W. Fox
deco at moscow.com
Tue Nov 9 18:29:25 PST 2004
Chris,
Please allow some of us to be skeptical of UI's attendance facts.
In the early 90's, my wife and I were given tickets to a UI football game. If
you included all the players and the band, there might have been 1,000 in
attendance at the Kibbie Dome. The dome was almost deserted. I made estimates
by counting, etc. several times during the game and came up each time under
1,000.
Imagine my surprise when the papers reported the UI claim that attendance was
over 7,000! This number obviously did not come from actual bodies in the Dome
at the time. Maybe that was the number of tickets that were sold or
aggressively given away or maybe it was a serendipitous exaggeration.
The 1-A decision is very important for lots of reasons -- I have an open mind at
this point -- and it needs to be as correct as possible given the stakes and
given the uncertainties. However, to make the best decision for all concerned,
real facts need to be used, not fantasies.
Wayne
Art Deco (Wayne Fox)
deco at moscow.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Storhok
To: 'Donovan Arnold' ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 5:37 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: Nice Story about Nick Holt
Donavan,
Perhaps you should start with an examination of the UI Dept. of Athletics web
site. If you were to look at attendance figures you will see that Idaho has not
done that bad considering the record of Cable's teams.
Some figures on average football attendance for the UI:
year home away
2004 16,620 27,494
2003 12,064 23,951
2002 10,931 31,010
2001 16,230 30,767
2000 16,853 34,531
Source, UI Dept. of Athletics web site
I am sure Dr. Gier fully understands the consequences of moving the program
back 1-AA status and I am sure he understands that the consequences of this
action spread far beyond the football team. Athletic programs provide an
avenue for students to attend college, cutting sports programs cuts scholarship
opportunities and this is especially true for women and racial minorities.
Title 9 has been an absolute blessing to women and I feel one of the best tools
devised to remove barriers that prevented women from attending college. Before
Title 9 women just were not seen in large numbers on campuses anywhere in this
nation, once the doors were opened for athletes many of the remaining barriers
fell as well. Maybe in the 1950's and 60's football was about brawn versus
books, (and I know there are still abuses in many US colleges) but now revenue
from football provide an entry way for a lot of students who may not have been
classic "college material."
What I really love about the UI program is how successful the student athletes
are in the classroom. As a whole at the UI, student athletes outperform the
general student population in GPA's, retention rates, and graduation rates.
How many scholarship programs really pay for themselves? Athletics,
especially in years when you have a good football team, pays for itself and
enriches the college experience for far more students than those who take the
field. You invest some money by buying tickets and/or supporting the Vandal
Boosters and you get a good return. (I have noticed that my PERSI account has
not had a positive return for a few years) Whether you like it or not, football,
basketball, volleyball, etc. is about education. It is about scholarships, it
is also about valuable life skills such a discipline, planning, teamwork, caring
for your fellow teammate, your coaches, your opponents.
My problem with the whole financial scandal of the Hoover era is how students
and staff have suffered; have we seen anyone involved in that house of cards
charged with a crime? Will the Board of Education ever take responsibility for
the mess that they ultimately created, no? Will the governor, no? The Boise
project has served as an excuse to plunder the U of I. I am very certain that
the state as a whole has suffered economically and socially because of the
repercussions of that project.
Cutting football back to 1-AA status and eliminating other athletic
scholarships would be just another short sighted response to a scandal that the
Board should take responsibility for.
Thanks,
Chris Storhok
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 2:42 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Nice Story about Nick Holt
Chris Storhok writes, "Dr. Gier's attack on Vandal athletics is perhaps one
of the poorest
strategies ever used to solve the funding woes of the U. of I." and he
continued with,
"The real cause of the U of I's funding problems can be traced directly to
poor government leadership within the state legislature, the governors
office, and a out of touch and very anti-public education State Board of
Education."
First off, Dr. Gier was not attacking the Vandal athletics program. I think
you misunderstand what Dr. Gier was stating or you intentionally are
misrepresenting his fair-minded and concerned intentions. From my
perception, Mr. Geir cares very much about the University and has done a
great deal for it and the teachers and students. Pointing out an error is
not attacking it to prevent future harm to the University is not attacking
it.
I doubt Mr. Gier of all people would disagree that the State Legislature and
Governor are not running an effective government. However, that is only part
of the financial problems of the University. The other half of the problem
is the million of dollars lost by the University Administration dumping huge
amounts of money into programs and projects that they believed would make
more money based on uninformed decisions using flawed research.
Favoring sound financial decisions through proper research will prevent the
University from plunging deeper in financial despair. I think everyone would
like very much to pursue expansions in all areas of the University. But they
should do so not in a reckless manner that creates financial havoc.
The evidence that going to AI will improve the financial situation of UI is
shaky at best. I think if the attendance of 12,000-17,000 on average per
game is needed to make the financial projections necessary to make the
investment costs of moving to AI worth while we should absolutely not move
to AI. There is nothing to indicate that on average, 110% of the current
student population will attend every game. Moscow does not have the
population base to get to 12,000 on average. Further, using WSU as a model
is also evidence that the person(s) doing the research has a poor
understanding of the University and the surrounding populations.
I think anyone that truly cared about the University would not want its
limited resources chasing after long-shot dreams of having a great and
profitable football team. I am all for moving to AI. But not at the expense
of rest of University. The money and the resources we have should be put
toward the original intentions of the University, education.
Take Care,
Donovan J Arnold
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