<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>Chris,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>Please allow some of us to be skeptical of
UI's attendance facts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>In the early 90's, my wife and I were given
tickets to a UI football game. If you included all the players and the
band, there might have been 1,000 in attendance at the Kibbie Dome. The
dome was almost deserted. I made estimates by counting, etc. several times
during the game and came up each time under 1,000.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>Imagine my surprise when the papers
reported the UI claim that attendance was over 7,000! This number
obviously did not come from actual bodies in the Dome at the time. Maybe
that was the number of tickets that were sold or aggressively given away or
maybe it was a serendipitous exaggeration.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>The 1-A decision is very important for lots
of reasons -- I have an open mind at this point -- and it needs to be as correct
as possible given the stakes and given the uncertainties. However, to
make the best decision for all concerned, real facts need to be used,
not fantasies.</FONT></DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>
<DIV><BR>Wayne</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Art Deco (Wayne Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=cstorhok@co.fairbanks.ak.us
href="mailto:cstorhok@co.fairbanks.ak.us">Chris Storhok</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=donovanarnold@hotmail.com
href="mailto:donovanarnold@hotmail.com">'Donovan Arnold'</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 09, 2004 5:37
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] Re: Nice Story
about Nick Holt </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Donavan,<BR> Perhaps you should start with an examination
of the UI Dept. of Athletics web site. If you were to look at attendance
figures you will see that Idaho has not done that bad considering the record
of Cable's teams.<BR>Some figures on average football attendance for the
UI: </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT> </P>
<P>
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 192pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0
cellPadding=0 width=256 border=0 x:str>
<COLGROUP>
<COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=4 width=64>
<TBODY>
<TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>
<TD class=xl27
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
width=64 height=17><FONT face=Arial size=2>year</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl31
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
width=64><FONT face=Arial size=2>home</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl26
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
width=64><FONT face=Arial size=2>away</FONT></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
width=64><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>
<TD class=xl28
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right height=17 x:num><FONT face=Arial size=2>2004</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl32
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="16620"><FONT face=Arial size=2>16,620</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl24
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="27494"><FONT face=Arial size=2>27,494</FONT></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>
<TD class=xl34
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right height=17 x:num><FONT face=Arial size=2>2003</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl35
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="12064"><FONT face=Arial size=2>12,064</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl36
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="23951"><FONT face=Arial size=2>23,951</FONT></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>
<TD class=xl28
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right height=17 x:num><FONT face=Arial size=2>2002</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl32
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="10931"><FONT face=Arial size=2>10,931</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl24
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="31010"><FONT face=Arial size=2>31,010</FONT></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>
<TD class=xl34
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right height=17 x:num><FONT face=Arial size=2>2001</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl35
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="16230"><FONT face=Arial size=2>16,230</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl36
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="30767"><FONT face=Arial size=2>30,767</FONT></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>
<TD class=xl29
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right height=17 x:num><FONT face=Arial size=2>2000</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl33
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="16853"><FONT face=Arial size=2>16,853</FONT></TD>
<TD class=xl25
style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
align=right x:num="34531"><FONT face=Arial size=2>34,531</FONT></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>
<TD class=xl30
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
height=17><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>
<TD
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; mso-ignore: colspan"
colSpan=4 height=17><FONT face=Arial size=2>Source, UI Dept. of
Athletics web site</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></P>
<P><BR><BR>I am sure Dr. Gier fully understands the consequences of moving the
program back 1-AA status and I am sure he understands that the consequences of
this action spread far beyond the football team. Athletic programs
provide an avenue for students to attend college, cutting sports programs cuts
scholarship opportunities and this is especially true for women and racial
minorities. Title 9 has been an absolute blessing to women and I
feel one of the best tools devised to remove barriers that prevented women
from attending college. Before Title 9 women just were not seen in large
numbers on campuses anywhere in this nation, once the doors were opened for
athletes many of the remaining barriers fell as well. Maybe in the
1950's and 60's football was about brawn versus books, (and I know there are
still abuses in many US colleges) but now revenue from football provide an
entry way for a lot of students who may not have been classic "college
material." <BR>What I really love about the UI program is how
successful the student athletes are in the classroom. As a whole at the
UI, student athletes outperform the general student population in GPA's,
retention rates, and graduation rates. <BR>How many scholarship programs
really pay for themselves? Athletics, especially in years when you have
a good football team, pays for itself and enriches the college experience for
far more students than those who take the field. You invest some money
by buying tickets and/or supporting the Vandal Boosters and you get a good
return. (I have noticed that my PERSI account has not had a positive
return for a few years) Whether you like it or not, football, basketball,
volleyball, etc. is about education. It is about scholarships, it is
also about valuable life skills such a discipline, planning, teamwork, caring
for your fellow teammate, your coaches, your
opponents. <BR><BR><BR>My problem with the whole financial
scandal of the Hoover era is how students and staff have suffered; have we
seen anyone involved in that house of cards charged with a crime? Will
the Board of Education ever take responsibility for the mess that they
ultimately created, no? Will the governor, no? The Boise
project has served as an excuse to plunder the U of I. I am very certain
that the state as a whole has suffered economically and socially because of
the repercussions of that project.<BR><BR>Cutting football back to 1-AA status
and eliminating other athletic scholarships would be just another short
sighted response to a scandal that the Board should take responsibility
for. <BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Chris
Storhok<BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com<BR>[<A
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</A>]On
Behalf Of Donovan Arnold<BR>Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 2:42 PM<BR>To:
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Nice Story about Nick
Holt<BR><BR><BR>Chris Storhok writes, "Dr. Gier's attack on Vandal athletics
is perhaps one<BR>of the poorest<BR>strategies ever used to solve the funding
woes of the U. of I." and he<BR>continued with,<BR><BR>"The real cause of the
U of I's funding problems can be traced directly to<BR>poor government
leadership within the state legislature, the governors<BR>office, and a out of
touch and very anti-public education State Board
of<BR>Education."<BR><BR>First off, Dr. Gier was not attacking the Vandal
athletics program. I think<BR>you misunderstand what Dr. Gier was stating or
you intentionally are<BR>misrepresenting his fair-minded and concerned
intentions. From my<BR>perception, Mr. Geir cares very much about the
University and has done a<BR>great deal for it and the teachers and students.
Pointing out an error is<BR>not attacking it to prevent future harm to the
University is not attacking<BR>it.<BR><BR>I doubt Mr. Gier of all people would
disagree that the State Legislature and<BR>Governor are not running an
effective government. However, that is only part<BR>of the financial problems
of the University. The other half of the problem<BR>is the million of dollars
lost by the University Administration dumping huge<BR>amounts of money into
programs and projects that they believed would make<BR>more money based on
uninformed decisions using flawed research.<BR><BR>Favoring sound financial
decisions through proper research will prevent the<BR>University from plunging
deeper in financial despair. I think everyone would<BR>like very much to
pursue expansions in all areas of the University. But they<BR>should do so not
in a reckless manner that creates financial havoc.<BR><BR>The evidence that
going to AI will improve the financial situation of UI is<BR>shaky at best. I
think if the attendance of 12,000-17,000 on average per<BR>game is needed to
make the financial projections necessary to make the<BR>investment costs of
moving to AI worth while we should absolutely not move<BR>to AI. There is
nothing to indicate that on average, 110% of the current<BR>student population
will attend every game. Moscow does not have the<BR>population base to get to
12,000 on average. Further, using WSU as a model<BR>is also evidence
that the person(s) doing the research has a poor<BR>understanding of the
University and the surrounding populations.<BR><BR>I think anyone that truly
cared about the University would not want its<BR>limited resources chasing
after long-shot dreams of having a great and<BR>profitable football team. I am
all for moving to AI. But not at the expense<BR>of rest of University. The
money and the resources we have should be put<BR>toward the original
intentions of the University, education.<BR><BR>Take Care,<BR><BR>Donovan J
Arnold<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Express
yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!<BR><A
href="http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/"
target=_blank>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/</A><BR><BR>_____________________________________________________<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since
1994. <BR>
<A href="http://www.fsr.net"
target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A> <BR>
<A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<BR></P></FONT>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_____________________________________________________<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>
http://www.fsr.net
<BR>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>