[Vision2020] 17,000 average!

Dan Carscallen predator75 at moscow.com
Tue Nov 9 09:23:06 PST 2004 

A 4-lane US 95 from Oregon to Canada could make things better as well.

Stirring the pot . . .

DC

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Mark Solomon
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:08 AM
To: Saundra Lund; 'Mike Weatherford'; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!


I attended Mr. Petersen's presentation to the 
LEDC on the economic impact of UI athletics on 
the Moscow community. One of the issues he 
pointed out that I believe bears further study is 
the ability of WSU to meet its attendance 
requirements by drawing people from Spokane 
(mostly) and Seattle (sometimes) and the 
implications for UI.

Bypassing the issue of the drawing power of a 
winning program/losing program, the historical 
and demographic relationship of our neighboring 
Idaho communities to the UI is significantly 
different than that of the WSU/Spokane area. 
While the CdA area is booming population-wise, it 
is driven by an in-migration of people who have 
little if any ties to the UI. Let's please 
remember that a short twenty years ago CdA was 
still a mill town with a population of less than 
50,000. New arrivals in CdA are just as likely to 
attend a Gonzaga game as a UI game, and given the 
transportation issues, probably more likely. 
Lewiston attendance contribution is probably as 
static in potential as the increase in 
population/economic activity in the Valley. 
Boise? Where are the fans going to come from? How 
much $$ is it going to take to market the idea to 
them and what will be the anticipated return?

A real marketing study complete with a 
statistically significant survey of potential UI 
athletic fans/attendees is in order before 
proceeding much further down the 1A path.

Mark Solomon

At 8:38 AM -0800 11/9/04, Saundra Lund wrote:
>Hi Mike,
>
>As Mr. Solomon already pointed out, Moscow's population *includes* the 
>student population, so that makes the 17,000 average required 
>attendance even more ludicrous, IMHO.
>
>Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  As a UI
>alumni, I have the same "issue" with
>athletics funding.  I mean, sure, it would be 
>nice if the UI could have a great
>team that inspired the kind of attendance 
>required for the IA division, but the
>reality is that for whatever reason(s), that 
>just isn't happening.  And, to keep
>sinking scarce financial resources into a losing 
>proposition is just plain DUMB,
>IMHO, particularly when vital academic departments are having to do
without
>basics like phones for professors, for crying out loud!
>
>I'm quite disappointed in new President White's
>comments thus far, and if I were
>one of those Task Force members, I'd be discouraged as well, $7500 or
not.
>
>I am, however, quite intrigued, by your
>suggestion of tying sports scholarships
>to athletic performance  :-)  For those who have 
>a better grasp of the subject,
>what would be the drawbacks to such a notion?  And, assuming there are
>legitimate drawbacks, would those drawbacks outweigh the benefits?
>
>
>Saundra Lund
>Moscow, ID
>
>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to 
>do nothing. -Edmund Burke
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Mike Weatherford
>Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 1:13 AM
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!
>
>Hmmph.
>
>   I did a (very small amount of) research, to put that number in 
>perspective. I thought that 17,000 seemed a little high, based on the 
>population and university enrollment, so I checked around a bit. We 
>have an enrollment of around 11,444(based on the UI's own online 
>factbook,) and Moscow's population is probably around 23,500 (which is 
>higher than the actual figures I found, which sit at around 21-22,000, 
>but are a few years
>old.) That puts the total pool of potential in-town attendees at
something
>like 34,944. So, to meet the /average/ requirement of 17,000, we'd have
to
>have something like 48.6% of the total potential attendees show up. I
mean,
>the turnout we had, based on my numbers is pretty close to 25.8%, using
my
>(potentially accurate) system.
>
>   Of course, I'm just a relatively uninformed student, crunching 
>numbers in my head and using the calculator built in to my computer. 
>The fact that something is wrong here and that the team doesn't belong 
>in IA should be painfully obvious to anyone who actually knows what's 
>going on, right? Maybe they know something I don't? Or maybe the UI 
>Football program is simply beating its head against a wall, attempting 
>to keep competing with its "rival" university dispite very real 
>tactical and financial considerations that imply that doing so is a 
>terrible idea for everyone involved. Yeah, maybe that's it.
>
>   One other thing, while I'm already complaining: I've long been a fan

>of the idea that athletes should have performance based scholarships. 
>My pal Griff suggested this to me, and it's a great idea. I mean, I 
>lose my academic scholarships if I slip below a 3.2 gpa. I move that if

>a team dips below a similar athletic performance rating, they lose 
>their sports scholarships. If profound financial anxiety helps academic

>performance (as it has arguably helped mine), it should have a similar 
>effect on athletic performance. I also think that if the athletics 
>department wants to replace perfectly serviceable equipment with shiny 
>new, but unnecessary, stuff, then it should raise the money itself. 
>Want another glass-enclosed weight room? Have a bake sale. Wash cars. 
>Sell your mopeds. It'll build character. Then they'll appreciate the 
>new gear that much more. That's what my dad always told me, and he was 
>right often enough that I trust him.
>
>Part of my problem could be that it's late, or that I'm bitter. Both 
>valid possibilities. But I came from a poor high school that constantly

>poured money (money that it didn't have) into it's football team. I'd 
>hoped that I would escape that trend when I came to college.
>
>A good morning to you all.
>-Mike
>
>>From: Nicholas Gier <ngier at uidaho.edu>
>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!
>>Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:20:41 -0800
>>
>>Greetings from Blue State Capital,
>>
>>All the publicity about UI going to IA explicitly stated that we 
>>needed to average 17,000 per game, and the 9,000 last Saturday at a 
>>homecmoing game simply shows that we do not have the fan or population

>>base to be a IA team.
>>
>>In response to an earlier post about the AFT call for a return to the 
>>Big Sky, I did indeed send our piece to Steve Peterson, who said that 
>>it did not contain any errors.  Steve is a former A+ student of mine 
>>and also has done economic analyses for the union, but I'm a little 
>>concerned about a social scientist now apparently going partisan about

>>IA affiliation.
>>
>>If the UI thinks that it can make money with a IA football team, it is

>>an absurd proposition.  As we stated in our position paper, the 
>>average deficit in IA programs after appropriated funds are 
>>substracted is $237,000, and only about six programs actually make 
>>money.  And at the UI there are all sorts of hidden costs: maintaining

>>the Kibbie Dome, etc. Even if they raise private money for a new 
>>stadium, the UI will still be stuck with maintenance costs, etc.
>>
>>If we have to stop this madness now.
>>
>>Go Big Sky Vandals!
>>
>>Nick Gier
>>
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 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
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