[Vision2020] 05-20-04 USA Today: Sanchez says he never saw rules for interrogation
Art Deco aka W. Fox
deco@moscow.com
Thu, 20 May 2004 12:53:13 -0700
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Posted 5/20/2004 12:58 AM Updated 5/20/2004 9:03 AM
Sanchez says he never saw rules for interrogation
By John Diamond, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON - An obscure Army captain wrote the interrogation rules. The
general in charge never saw them, even though his title appears on the document
as the officer who must approve especially harsh techniques. Yet somehow the
rules wound up on the wall of the interrogation center at Abu Ghraib prison.
Under questioning Wednesday by members of the Senate Armed Services
Committee, senior U.S. commanders in Iraq struggled to explain how
"interrogation rules of engagement" that they admitted could violate the Geneva
Conventions were distributed - without their knowledge - to guards and
intelligence officers at the largest U.S. military prison in Iraq.
The rules were posted at Abu Ghraib as of last October, possibly earlier.
That was around the time that U.S. military guards at the sprawling prison
complex 20 miles west of Baghdad photographed and videotaped their abusive and
humiliating treatment of Iraqi prisoners. The images of naked Iraqis piled on
top of one another or being dragged by dog leashes sparked an international
furor when they were leaked to the media. An Army investigation found that the
guards were responding to demands by military intelligence officers that they
"soften up" the prisoners for interrogation.
The rules
According to a document titled "Interrogation
Rules of Engagement" that was posted at Abu Ghraib, requests to use these
methods had to be made in writing to the commanding general in Iraq, Lt. Gen.
Ricardo Sanchez:
Change of scenery down (moving to a more barren
cell)
Dietary manipulation
Environmental manipulation
Sleep adjustment (reverse schedule)
Isolation for longer than 30 days
Presence of military working dogs
Sleep management (72 hours maximum)
Sensory deprivation (72 hours maximum)
Stress positions (no longer than 45 minutes)
The interrogation rules describe "approved approaches" such as rapid-fire
questioning, offering of incentives for cooperation, and the silent treatment.
The document cautions that detainees "will NEVER be touched in a malicious or
unwanted manner" and that the Geneva Conventions apply in Iraq.
But a separate list shows techniques that can be used with the "CG's"
approval - a reference to Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the commanding general in
Iraq and one of the witnesses at Wednesday's committee hearing. They include up
to three days of sleep deprivation and "sensory deprivation," the use of guard
dogs near prisoners, and up to 45 minutes tied in "stress positions."
Sanchez said the interrogation rules were drafted "at the company
commander level." He said he had "no role in preparing or approving it." Yet the
briefing slide with the interrogation rules displays the logo of Combined Joint
Task Force-7, the U.S.-led coalition force in Iraq that Sanchez commands.
Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., was incredulous. "How could the company commander
evolve such a specific list" of techniques that would "require your permission,
without any interaction between your command?" asked Reed, a veteran and West
Point graduate. "It seems to me difficult to understand."
"Sir, it's difficult for me to understand it," Sanchez replied. "You have
to ask the commander."
Sanchez said he had his own set of interrogation rules that followed Army
regulations. But he acknowledged that in 25 separate instances, he approved
holding Iraqi prisoners in isolation for longer than 30 days, one of the methods
listed in the interrogation rules drafted by a female Army officer identified
only as Capt. Woods. In three other cases, according to Warren, requests to put
prisoners in "stress positions" were rejected by commanders below Sanchez.
Sanchez also denied approving harsh treatment of one Iraqi inmate at Abu
Ghraib, an incident detailed in the Army's investigative report by Maj. Gen.
Antonio Taguba, and reported Wednesday in USA TODAY. In that incident, according
to a government official who has read most of the Taguba report's 6,000-page
classified annex, Sanchez approved the use of sleep deprivation, intimidation by
guard dogs and inducing fear to persuade the Iraqi inmate to talk.
Sanchez told the committee, "I never approved any of those measures to be
used within (Iraq) at any time in the last year."
Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., got into a testy exchange with Gen. John
Abizaid, the overall commander in Iraq, over whether senior civilian officials
at the Pentagon had any role in approving interrogation techniques. "It's our
responsibility," Abizaid said.
"Nobody in the Pentagon approved these rules?" Byrd asked.
"I'm not saying that, sir," Abizaid said.
"Then what are you saying?" Byrd shot back. Abizaid eventually explained
he didn't know if anyone at the Pentagon had reviewed or approved interrogation
techniques, but that such approval was not necessary.
Capt. Woods was not at the hearing. Army Col. Marc Warren, a U.S. military
lawyer, told the committee that Woods, who is a military intelligence officer,
developed the list of techniques after researching methods "used by
interrogators in other places," or described in "any document that we could
find" on Army interrogation rules. Warren conceded that the methods Woods came
up with, if used in certain combinations, "may very well ... violate the Geneva
Conventions."
The Army gave Woods' rules to lawmakers last week to show it had careful
controls in place. But when members of Congress questioned the harsh
interrogation methods the rules permitted, the Department of Defense rescinded
them Friday.
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<TD class=3Ddatestamp height=3D20>Posted 5/20/2004 12:58 =
AM Updated 5/20/2004 9:03=20
AM</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
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<DIV><!-- EdSysObj ID=3D"SandboxLede" FRAGMENTID=3D"12312776" =
pmichals --><SPAN=20
class=3Dinside-head><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D5>Sanchez =
says he never=20
saw rules for interrogation</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dinside-head></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=3Dby-line>By John Diamond, USA TODAY</DIV>
<DIV class=3Dintro-copy>WASHINGTON =97 An obscure Army captain =
wrote the=20
interrogation rules. The general in charge never saw them, even =
though his=20
title appears on the document as the officer who must approve =
especially=20
harsh techniques. Yet somehow the rules wound up on the wall of =
the=20
interrogation center at Abu Ghraib prison.</DIV>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>Under questioning Wednesday by members of =
the Senate=20
Armed Services Committee, senior U.S. commanders in Iraq struggled =
to=20
explain how "interrogation rules of engagement" that they admitted =
could=20
violate the Geneva Conventions were distributed =97 without their =
knowledge=20
=97 to guards and intelligence officers at the largest U.S. =
military prison=20
in Iraq.</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>The rules were posted at Abu Ghraib as of =
last=20
October, possibly earlier. That was around the time that U.S. =
military=20
guards at the sprawling prison complex 20 miles west of Baghdad=20
photographed and videotaped their abusive and humiliating =
treatment of=20
Iraqi prisoners. The images of naked Iraqis piled on top of one =
another or=20
being dragged by dog leashes sparked an international furor when =
they were=20
leaked to the media. An Army investigation found that the guards =
were=20
responding to demands by military intelligence officers that they =
"soften=20
up" the prisoners for interrogation.</P>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 align=3Dleft>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D190 =
border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD class=3Dnotch_header width=3D1 rowSpan=3D3><IMG =
height=3D10=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif"=20
width=3D1 border=3D0></TD>
<TD class=3Dnotch_header width=3D180> The =
rules</TD>
<TD class=3Dnotch_header width=3D1 rowSpan=3D3><IMG =
height=3D10=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif"=20
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<TBODY>
<TR class=3Dsidebar>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop><IMG height=3D10=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif"=20
width=3D180 border=3D0></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D2 =
width=3D"99%"=20
border=3D0><TBODY>
<TR>
<TD class=3Dsidebar vAlign=3Dtop>According =
to a=20
document titled "Interrogation Rules of=20
Engagement" that was posted at Abu Ghraib, =
requests to use these methods had to be =
made in=20
writing to the commanding general in Iraq, =
Lt.=20
Gen. Ricardo Sanchez:<BR><BR><IMG =
height=3D9=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/bullet.gif"=20
width=3D9> Change of scenery down (moving =
to a more=20
barren cell)<BR><IMG height=3D9=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/bullet.gif"=20
width=3D9> Dietary manipulation<BR><IMG =
height=3D9=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/bullet.gif"=20
width=3D9> Environmental =
manipulation<BR><IMG=20
height=3D9=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/bullet.gif"=20
width=3D9> Sleep adjustment (reverse=20
schedule)<BR><IMG height=3D9=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/bullet.gif"=20
width=3D9> Isolation for longer than 30 =
days<BR><IMG=20
height=3D9=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/bullet.gif"=20
width=3D9> Presence of military working =
dogs<BR><IMG=20
height=3D9=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/bullet.gif"=20
width=3D9> Sleep management (72 hours=20
maximum)<BR><IMG height=3D9=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/bullet.gif"=20
width=3D9> Sensory deprivation (72 hours=20
maximum)<BR><IMG height=3D9=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/bullet.gif"=20
width=3D9>Stress positions (no longer than =
45=20
minutes) =
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
<TR class=3Dsidebar>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop><IMG height=3D10=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif"=20
width=3D1 =
border=3D0></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD class=3Dnotch_header width=3D180 height=3D1><IMG =
height=3D1=20
=
src=3D"http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif"=20
width=3D10 =
border=3D0></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>The interrogation rules describe "approved=20
approaches" such as rapid-fire questioning, offering of incentives =
for=20
cooperation, and the silent treatment. The document cautions that=20
detainees "will NEVER be touched in a malicious or unwanted =
manner" and=20
that the Geneva Conventions apply in Iraq.</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>But a separate list shows techniques that =
can be used=20
with the "CG's" approval =97 a reference to Lt. Gen. Ricardo =
Sanchez, the=20
commanding general in Iraq and one of the witnesses at Wednesday's =
committee hearing. They include up to three days of sleep =
deprivation and=20
"sensory deprivation," the use of guard dogs near prisoners, and =
up to 45=20
minutes tied in "stress positions."</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>Sanchez said the interrogation rules were =
drafted "at=20
the company commander level." He said he had "no role in preparing =
or=20
approving it." Yet the briefing slide with the interrogation rules =
displays the logo of Combined Joint Task Force-7, the U.S.-led =
coalition=20
force in Iraq that Sanchez commands.</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., was incredulous. =
"How could=20
the company commander evolve such a specific list" of techniques =
that=20
would "require your permission, without any interaction between =
your=20
command?" asked Reed, a veteran and West Point graduate. "It seems =
to me=20
difficult to understand."</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>"Sir, it's difficult for me to understand =
it,"=20
Sanchez replied. "You have to ask the commander."</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>Sanchez said he had his own set of =
interrogation=20
rules that followed Army regulations. But he acknowledged that in =
25=20
separate instances, he approved holding Iraqi prisoners in =
isolation for=20
longer than 30 days, one of the methods listed in the =
interrogation rules=20
drafted by a female Army officer identified only as Capt. Woods. =
In three=20
other cases, according to Warren, requests to put prisoners in =
"stress=20
positions" were rejected by commanders below Sanchez.</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>Sanchez also denied approving harsh =
treatment of one=20
Iraqi inmate at Abu Ghraib, an incident detailed in the Army's=20
investigative report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, and reported =
Wednesday=20
in USA TODAY. In that incident, according to a government official =
who has=20
read most of the Taguba report's 6,000-page classified annex, =
Sanchez=20
approved the use of sleep deprivation, intimidation by guard dogs =
and=20
inducing fear to persuade the Iraqi inmate to talk.</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>Sanchez told the committee, "I never =
approved any of=20
those measures to be used within (Iraq) at any time in the last =
year."</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., got into a testy =
exchange=20
with Gen. John Abizaid, the overall commander in Iraq, over =
whether senior=20
civilian officials at the Pentagon had any role in approving =
interrogation=20
techniques. "It's our responsibility," Abizaid said.</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>"Nobody in the Pentagon approved these =
rules?" Byrd=20
asked.</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>"I'm not saying that, sir," Abizaid =
said.</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>"Then what are you saying?" Byrd shot back. =
Abizaid=20
eventually explained he didn't know if anyone at the Pentagon had =
reviewed=20
or approved interrogation techniques, but that such approval was =
not=20
necessary.</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>Capt. Woods was not at the hearing. Army =
Col. Marc=20
Warren, a U.S. military lawyer, told the committee that Woods, who =
is a=20
military intelligence officer, developed the list of techniques =
after=20
researching methods "used by interrogators in other places," or =
described=20
in "any document that we could find" on Army interrogation rules. =
Warren=20
conceded that the methods Woods came up with, if used in certain=20
combinations, "may very well ... violate the Geneva =
Conventions."</P>
<P class=3Dinside-copy>The Army gave Woods' rules to lawmakers =
last week to=20
show it had careful controls in place. But when members of =
Congress=20
questioned the harsh interrogation methods the rules permitted, =
the=20
Department of Defense rescinded them=20
Friday.</P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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