[Vision2020] This is Boring!
JSullivan
jsullivan@moscow.com
Fri, 14 May 2004 08:22:46 -0700
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Maybe a litter of cats have a firm hold on their tongues.
So...... What is going this weekend in Moscow/Pullman, does anyone know? =
I do know this is the second weekend of Farmer's Market, and as of this =
morning, the weather looks promising for a warm weekend!=20
U of I Graduation is tomorrow. There is an uplifting story here- =
http://www.today.uidaho.edu/details.asp?id=3D2605&sctn=3Dnews about =
Anita Mabbutt, a 75 year old college graduate who proves it is never =
too late to return to school. *smile*
Have a fun weekend!
Janesta Carcich Sullivan=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tbertruss@aol.com=20
To: vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:44 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] This is Boring!
All:
Now that Christ Church members for the most part have abandoned V2020, =
and Bush supporters seem to be in hiding, at least on V2020, we are =
left, it seems, with a close knit group of list serve participants who =
echo each other at length on critiquing and satirizing Christ Church and =
affiliated institutions, and the Bush administration. Won't someone =
please present a witty and well reasoned argument supporting Christ =
Church, New St. Andrews, or Bush's policies?
Maybe Edna will return? How about William F. Buckley Jr. for an =
erudite defense of Bush?
Why look who it is, the elder grand conservative intellectual, calling =
for, it seems, Rumsfeld's resignation? I give up!
http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200405111231.asp
Exit Rumsfeld?
Strategic considerations.
By William F. Buckley Jr.=20
Seeking relief from the special hideousness of the Abu Ghraib scene, =
some commentators thought back to My Lai. It could only be said about =
that black day in Vietnam in 1968, in search of an explanation this side =
of concluding that American soldiers are mass killers, that some of the =
men who engaged in the massacre did what they did under the impulse of =
hot pursuit. You are waging the war, there are snipers and other hidden =
assailants, and you find yourself authorizing your men to use their =
machine guns to just mow everybody down =E2=80=94 one way to do it. In =
Iraq there seems to have been nothing there in the sense of dodging =
bullets and returning fire. It seemed sheer sadism, pleasure taken from =
torture. Psychological torture, we have reason to believe, though there =
are corpses to be accounted for. But there is no accounting for forcing =
naked men to enact sexual practices, some apparently perverse, for the =
gratification of an assembly apparently stripped of any thought of =
humane behavior.
Yes, the miscreants, or at least those who are identifiable =E2=80=94 =
the photographers were here useful =E2=80=94 will be tried. It is hard =
to imagine what their defense will be, though no doubt it will be a plea =
based on the strain of their assignment and the disorientation of war =
prison duty. Lieutenant William Calley, whose infantry company killed =
the civilians in My Lai, pleaded the fever of the war, but he was =
convicted to life in prison. A startling thing then happened. What =
seemed all of America rose up in protest against the sentence. The =
American people were not saying, clearly, that it was wrong to convict =
someone who had so crassly violated the rules of war. But they were =
saying that they thought the sentence inordinate, and the pressure was =
so immense that President Nixon bowed to it, sharply reducing the =
sentence.
It is unlikely that a great protest would follow upon the conviction =
of the Abu Ghraib torturers, but what will not be accomplished simply by =
trying and convicting them is any sense of national expiation. The =
American people are so dumbfounded by what happened, they are listening =
attentively to a cry for the dismissal of Donald Rumsfeld.
The case against the secretary of defense goes beyond the events in =
the prison. For those, he has already apologized. But there was a sense =
there of a man apologizing because the Tables of Organization list him =
as the man-in-charge, a little like the mayor of San Francisco =
apologizing for the earthquake. Not yet explained is how it is that =
Donald Rumsfeld, looking at the report in March describing the behavior =
of the prison guards, did nothing more than merely approve their =
prosecution. Clearly what cried out to be done was a public repudiation =
of the misbehavior combined with the public exposure of it.
No doubt Mr. Rumsfeld acted entirely on military considerations. The =
scene in Iraq had got bad, in March, and he was surely motivated by the =
temptation to think of anything other than the containment of the =
terrorists as clerical in nature. But of course he was wrong, and his =
misjudgment is paradoxically hitting him the hardest. While he might =
reasonably have thought the prison doings trivial in the context of a =
war in which 135,000 American soldiers were engaged, some being killed =
every day, the public has been seized by the hideous detail, seeing it =
as a sore that suddenly illuminates the disease coursing through the =
whole system. Abu Ghraib is causing some people to say: What in the hell =
were American soldiers doing in that grisly place? With those grisly =
people! While some of their companions were being ambushed and shot =
every day. Oh! And by the way, they are asking for billions of dollars =
more to pursue that nightmare.
Not lucid thought, granted. If we had applied the same reasoning to =
incidents in the Pacific sixty years ago, we'd have declared the war =
diseased and unjustified, and fired Douglas MacArthur for losing the =
Philippines. History teaches us that the firing of a general, when wars =
go badly, is a pretty routine thing. President Lincoln fired General =
George B. McClellan, who then proceeded to nomination for president by =
the Democratic party in 1864. Japanese culture made way for failed =
generals to disembowel themselves in propitiation.=20
President Bush is understandably determined not to let Abu Ghraib =
dictate the course of our entire Mideast enterprise. But he may not =
succeed, and Donald Rumsfeld may be giving thought to whether his =
continued service is a strategic mistake.
=
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v2020 post by Ted Moffett
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe a litter of cats have a firm hold =
on their=20
tongues.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So...... What is going this =
weekend in=20
Moscow/Pullman, does anyone know? I do know this is the second weekend =
of=20
Farmer's Market, and as of this morning, the weather looks promising for =
a warm=20
weekend! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>U of I Graduation is tomorrow. =
There is an=20
uplifting story here- </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.today.uidaho.edu/details.asp?id=3D2605&sctn=3Dnews=
">http://www.today.uidaho.edu/details.asp?id=3D2605&sctn=3Dnews</A>&n=
bsp;about=20
Anita Mabbutt, a 75 year old college graduate who proves it is =
never too=20
late to return to school. *smile*</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Have a fun weekend!</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Janesta Carcich =
Sullivan</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DTbertruss@aol.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Tbertruss@aol.com">Tbertruss@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 14, 2004 1:44 =
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] This is=20
Boring!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
face=3DArial size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"><BR><BR>All:<BR><BR>Now that Christ =
Church=20
members for the most part have abandoned V2020, and Bush supporters =
seem to be=20
in hiding, at least on V2020, we are left, it seems, with a close knit =
group=20
of list serve participants who echo each other at length on critiquing =
and=20
satirizing Christ Church and affiliated institutions, and the Bush=20
administration. Won't someone please present a witty and well =
reasoned=20
argument supporting Christ Church, New St. Andrews, or Bush's=20
policies?<BR><BR>Maybe Edna will return? How about William F. =
Buckley=20
Jr. for an erudite defense of Bush?<BR><BR>Why look who it is, the =
elder grand=20
conservative intellectual, calling for, it seems, Rumsfeld's=20
resignation? I give up!<BR><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200405111231.asp">ht=
tp://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200405111231.asp</A><BR><BR>Ex=
it=20
Rumsfeld?<BR>Strategic considerations.<BR><BR>By William F. Buckley =
Jr.=20
<BR><BR>Seeking relief from the special hideousness of the Abu Ghraib =
scene,=20
some commentators thought back to My Lai. It could only be said about =
that=20
black day in Vietnam in 1968, in search of an explanation this side of =
concluding that American soldiers are mass killers, that some of the =
men who=20
engaged in the massacre did what they did under the impulse of hot =
pursuit.=20
You are waging the war, there are snipers and other hidden assailants, =
and you=20
find yourself authorizing your men to use their machine guns to just =
mow=20
everybody down =E2=80=94 one way to do it. In Iraq there seems to have =
been nothing=20
there in the sense of dodging bullets and returning fire. It seemed =
sheer=20
sadism, pleasure taken from torture. Psychological torture, we have =
reason to=20
believe, though there are corpses to be accounted for. But there is no =
accounting for forcing naked men to enact sexual practices, some =
apparently=20
perverse, for the gratification of an assembly apparently stripped of =
any=20
thought of humane behavior.<BR><BR>Yes, the miscreants, or at least =
those who=20
are identifiable =E2=80=94 the photographers were here useful =
=E2=80=94 will be tried. It is=20
hard to imagine what their defense will be, though no doubt it will be =
a plea=20
based on the strain of their assignment and the disorientation of war =
prison=20
duty. Lieutenant William Calley, whose infantry company killed the =
civilians=20
in My Lai, pleaded the fever of the war, but he was convicted to life =
in=20
prison. A startling thing then happened. What seemed all of America =
rose up in=20
protest against the sentence. The American people were not saying, =
clearly,=20
that it was wrong to convict someone who had so crassly violated the =
rules of=20
war. But they were saying that they thought the sentence inordinate, =
and the=20
pressure was so immense that President Nixon bowed to it, sharply =
reducing the=20
sentence.<BR><BR>It is unlikely that a great protest would follow upon =
the=20
conviction of the Abu Ghraib torturers, but what will not be =
accomplished=20
simply by trying and convicting them is any sense of national =
expiation. The=20
American people are so dumbfounded by what happened, they are =
listening=20
attentively to a cry for the dismissal of Donald Rumsfeld.<BR><BR>The =
case=20
against the secretary of defense goes beyond the events in the prison. =
For=20
those, he has already apologized. But there was a sense there of a man =
apologizing because the Tables of Organization list him as the =
man-in-charge,=20
a little like the mayor of San Francisco apologizing for the =
earthquake. Not=20
yet explained is how it is that Donald Rumsfeld, looking at the report =
in=20
March describing the behavior of the prison guards, did nothing more =
than=20
merely approve their prosecution. Clearly what cried out to be done =
was a=20
public repudiation of the misbehavior combined with the public =
exposure of=20
it.<BR><BR>No doubt Mr. Rumsfeld acted entirely on military =
considerations.=20
The scene in Iraq had got bad, in March, and he was surely motivated =
by the=20
temptation to think of anything other than the containment of the =
terrorists=20
as clerical in nature. But of course he was wrong, and his misjudgment =
is=20
paradoxically hitting him the hardest. While he might reasonably have =
thought=20
the prison doings trivial in the context of a war in which 135,000 =
American=20
soldiers were engaged, some being killed every day, the public has =
been seized=20
by the hideous detail, seeing it as a sore that suddenly illuminates =
the=20
disease coursing through the whole system. Abu Ghraib is causing some =
people=20
to say: What in the <I>hell</I> were American soldiers doing in that =
grisly=20
place? With those grisly people! While some of their companions were =
being=20
ambushed and shot every day. Oh! And by the way, they are asking for =
billions=20
of dollars more to pursue that nightmare.<BR><BR>Not lucid thought, =
granted.=20
If we had applied the same reasoning to incidents in the Pacific sixty =
years=20
ago, we'd have declared the war diseased and unjustified, and fired =
Douglas=20
MacArthur for losing the Philippines. History teaches us that the =
firing of a=20
general, when wars go badly, is a pretty routine thing. President =
Lincoln=20
fired General George B. McClellan, who then proceeded to nomination =
for=20
president by the Democratic party in 1864. Japanese culture made way =
for=20
failed generals to disembowel themselves in propitiation. =
<BR><BR>President=20
Bush is understandably determined not to let Abu Ghraib dictate the =
course of=20
our entire Mideast enterprise. But he may not succeed, and Donald =
Rumsfeld may=20
be giving thought to whether his continued service is a strategic=20
=
mistake.<BR>-------------------------------------------------------------=
---------------------------------------------------------------<BR>v2020 =
post by Ted Moffett<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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