[Vision2020] This is Boring!

[Tbertruss@aol.com]

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All:

Now that Christ Church members for the most part have abandoned V2020, and=20
Bush supporters seem to be in hiding, at least on V2020, we are left, it see=
ms,=20
with a close knit group of list serve participants who echo each other at=20
length on critiquing and satirizing Christ Church and affiliated institution=
s, and=20
the Bush administration.=C2=A0 Won't someone please present a witty and well=
=20
reasoned argument supporting Christ Church, New St. Andrews, or Bush's polic=
ies?

Maybe Edna will return?=C2=A0 How about William F. Buckley Jr. for an erudit=
e=20
defense of Bush?

Why look who it is, the elder grand conservative intellectual, calling for,=20
it seems, Rumsfeld's resignation?=C2=A0 I give up!

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200405111231.asp

Exit Rumsfeld?
Strategic considerations.

By William F. Buckley Jr.=20

Seeking relief from the special hideousness of the Abu Ghraib scene, some=20
commentators thought back to My Lai. It could only be said about that black=20=
day=20
in Vietnam in 1968, in search of an explanation this side of concluding that=
=20
American soldiers are mass killers, that some of the men who engaged in the=20
massacre did what they did under the impulse of hot pursuit. You are waging=20=
the=20
war, there are snipers and other hidden assailants, and you find yourself=20
authorizing your men to use their machine guns to just mow everybody down=20=
=E2=80=94 one way=20
to do it. In Iraq there seems to have been nothing there in the sense of=20
dodging bullets and returning fire. It seemed sheer sadism, pleasure taken f=
rom=20
torture. Psychological torture, we have reason to believe, though there are=20
corpses to be accounted for. But there is no accounting for forcing naked me=
n to=20
enact sexual practices, some apparently perverse, for the gratification of a=
n=20
assembly apparently stripped of any thought of humane behavior.

Yes, the miscreants, or at least those who are identifiable =E2=80=94 the=20
photographers were here useful =E2=80=94 will be tried. It is hard to imagin=
e what their defense=20
will be, though no doubt it will be a plea based on the strain of their=20
assignment and the disorientation of war prison duty. Lieutenant William Cal=
ley,=20
whose infantry company killed the civilians in My Lai, pleaded the fever of=20=
the=20
war, but he was convicted to life in prison. A startling thing then happened=
.=20
What seemed all of America rose up in protest against the sentence. The=20
American people were not saying, clearly, that it was wrong to convict someo=
ne who=20
had so crassly violated the rules of war. But they were saying that they tho=
ught=20
the sentence inordinate, and the pressure was so immense that President Nixo=
n=20
bowed to it, sharply reducing the sentence.

It is unlikely that a great protest would follow upon the conviction of the=20
Abu Ghraib torturers, but what will not be accomplished simply by trying and=
=20
convicting them is any sense of national expiation. The American people are=20=
so=20
dumbfounded by what happened, they are listening attentively to a cry for th=
e=20
dismissal of Donald Rumsfeld.

The case against the secretary of defense goes beyond the events in the=20
prison. For those, he has already apologized. But there was a sense there of=
 a man=20
apologizing because the Tables of Organization list him as the man-in-charge=
,=20
a little like the mayor of San Francisco apologizing for the earthquake. Not=
=20
yet explained is how it is that Donald Rumsfeld, looking at the report in Ma=
rch=20
describing the behavior of the prison guards, did nothing more than merely=20
approve their prosecution. Clearly what cried out to be done was a public=20
repudiation of the misbehavior combined with the public exposure of it.

No doubt Mr. Rumsfeld acted entirely on military considerations. The scene i=
n=20
Iraq had got bad, in March, and he was surely motivated by the temptation to=
=20
think of anything other than the containment of the terrorists as clerical i=
n=20
nature. But of course he was wrong, and his misjudgment is paradoxically=20
hitting him the hardest. While he might reasonably have thought the prison d=
oings=20
trivial in the context of a war in which 135,000 American soldiers were=20
engaged, some being killed every day, the public has been seized by the hide=
ous=20
detail, seeing it as a sore that suddenly illuminates the disease coursing t=
hrough=20
the whole system. Abu Ghraib is causing some people to say: What in the hell=
=20
were American soldiers doing in that grisly place? With those grisly people!=
=20
While some of their companions were being ambushed and shot every day. Oh! A=
nd=20
by the way, they are asking for billions of dollars more to pursue that=20
nightmare.

Not lucid thought, granted. If we had applied the same reasoning to incident=
s=20
in the Pacific sixty years ago, we'd have declared the war diseased and=20
unjustified, and fired Douglas MacArthur for losing the Philippines. History=
=20
teaches us that the firing of a general, when wars go badly, is a pretty rou=
tine=20
thing. President Lincoln fired General George B. McClellan, who then proceed=
ed to=20
nomination for president by the Democratic party in 1864. Japanese culture=20
made way for failed generals to disembowel themselves in propitiation.=20

President Bush is understandably determined not to let Abu Ghraib dictate th=
e=20
course of our entire Mideast enterprise. But he may not succeed, and Donald=20
Rumsfeld may be giving thought to whether his continued service is a strateg=
ic=20
mistake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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----------------------------------------------
v2020 post by Ted Moffett

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
<BR>
All:<BR>
<BR>
Now that Christ Church members for the most part have abandoned V2020, and B=
ush supporters seem to be in hiding, at least on V2020, we are left, it seem=
s, with a close knit group of list serve participants who echo each other at=
 length on critiquing and satirizing Christ Church and affiliated institutio=
ns, and the Bush administration.=C2=A0 Won't someone please present a witty=20=
and well reasoned argument supporting Christ Church, New St. Andrews, or Bus=
h's policies?<BR>
<BR>
Maybe Edna will return?=C2=A0 How about William F. Buckley Jr. for an erudit=
e defense of Bush?<BR>
<BR>
Why look who it is, the elder grand conservative intellectual, calling for,=20=
it seems, Rumsfeld's resignation?=C2=A0 I give up!<BR>
<BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200405111231.asp">ht=
tp://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200405111231.asp</A><BR>
<BR>
Exit Rumsfeld?<BR>
Strategic considerations.<BR>
<BR>
By William F. Buckley Jr. <BR>
<BR>
Seeking relief from the special hideousness of the Abu Ghraib scene, some co=
mmentators thought back to My Lai. It could only be said about that black da=
y in Vietnam in 1968, in search of an explanation this side of concluding th=
at American soldiers are mass killers, that some of the men who engaged in t=
he massacre did what they did under the impulse of hot pursuit. You are wagi=
ng the war, there are snipers and other hidden assailants, and you find your=
self authorizing your men to use their machine guns to just mow everybody do=
wn =E2=80=94 one way to do it. In Iraq there seems to have been nothing ther=
e in the sense of dodging bullets and returning fire. It seemed sheer sadism=
, pleasure taken from torture. Psychological torture, we have reason to beli=
eve, though there are corpses to be accounted for. But there is no accountin=
g for forcing naked men to enact sexual practices, some apparently perverse,=
 for the gratification of an assembly apparently stripped of any thought of=20=
humane behavior.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, the miscreants, or at least those who are identifiable =E2=80=94 the ph=
otographers were here useful =E2=80=94 will be tried. It is hard to imagine=20=
what their defense will be, though no doubt it will be a plea based on the s=
train of their assignment and the disorientation of war prison duty. Lieuten=
ant William Calley, whose infantry company killed the civilians in My Lai, p=
leaded the fever of the war, but he was convicted to life in prison. A start=
ling thing then happened. What seemed all of America rose up in protest agai=
nst the sentence. The American people were not saying, clearly, that it was=20=
wrong to convict someone who had so crassly violated the rules of war. But t=
hey were saying that they thought the sentence inordinate, and the pressure=20=
was so immense that President Nixon bowed to it, sharply reducing the senten=
ce.<BR>
<BR>
It is unlikely that a great protest would follow upon the conviction of the=20=
Abu Ghraib torturers, but what will not be accomplished simply by trying and=
 convicting them is any sense of national expiation. The American people are=
 so dumbfounded by what happened, they are listening attentively to a cry fo=
r the dismissal of Donald Rumsfeld.<BR>
<BR>
The case against the secretary of defense goes beyond the events in the pris=
on. For those, he has already apologized. But there was a sense there of a m=
an apologizing because the Tables of Organization list him as the man-in-cha=
rge, a little like the mayor of San Francisco apologizing for the earthquake=
. Not yet explained is how it is that Donald Rumsfeld, looking at the report=
 in March describing the behavior of the prison guards, did nothing more tha=
n merely approve their prosecution. Clearly what cried out to be done was a=20=
public repudiation of the misbehavior combined with the public exposure of i=
t.<BR>
<BR>
No doubt Mr. Rumsfeld acted entirely on military considerations. The scene i=
n Iraq had got bad, in March, and he was surely motivated by the temptation=20=
to think of anything other than the containment of the terrorists as clerica=
l in nature. But of course he was wrong, and his misjudgment is paradoxicall=
y hitting him the hardest. While he might reasonably have thought the prison=
 doings trivial in the context of a war in which 135,000 American soldiers w=
ere engaged, some being killed every day, the public has been seized by the=20=
hideous detail, seeing it as a sore that suddenly illuminates the disease co=
ursing through the whole system. Abu Ghraib is causing some people to say: W=
hat in the <I>hell</I> were American soldiers doing in that grisly place? Wi=
th those grisly people! While some of their companions were being ambushed a=
nd shot every day. Oh! And by the way, they are asking for billions of dolla=
rs more to pursue that nightmare.<BR>
<BR>
Not lucid thought, granted. If we had applied the same reasoning to incident=
s in the Pacific sixty years ago, we'd have declared the war diseased and un=
justified, and fired Douglas MacArthur for losing the Philippines. History t=
eaches us that the firing of a general, when wars go badly, is a pretty rout=
ine thing. President Lincoln fired General George B. McClellan, who then pro=
ceeded to nomination for president by the Democratic party in 1864. Japanese=
 culture made way for failed generals to disembowel themselves in propitiati=
on. <BR>
<BR>
President Bush is understandably determined not to let Abu Ghraib dictate th=
e course of our entire Mideast enterprise. But he may not succeed, and Donal=
d Rumsfeld may be giving thought to whether his continued service is a strat=
egic mistake.<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------------------------------------<BR>
v2020 post by Ted Moffett<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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