[Vision2020] Fw: Private [Says who]

[Kyle DeSpinauer]

joan,

why do you keep writing that i am wilson or jones?  sorry, honey, but just 
because you keep saying it won't make it true.  it is now a little after 
10am on a sunday morning and guess what?  i am not in church.  i don't 
usually go to church, dear joan, and the more you keep trying to fit a 
square peg in a round hole, the more you prove that it's time for you to get 
a prescription refill.


>From: "Captain Kirker" <captainkirker@hotmail.com>
>To: sslund@adelphia.net, vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: Private [Says who]
>Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:34:54 +0000
>
>Saundra and Visionheads,
>
>You might remember that, in his debate with Bill London, Douglas Wilson 
>said, “leaving a false impression is the same as lying.” Well, Jones did 
>not reply to you off list out of a benevolent desire to meet you face to 
>face. He replied off list because you caught him in a “false impression” 
>when he wrote, “We openly explained our decision in a public meeting almost 
>a year ago.” And since Jones’ lie could only lead to more lies, he gave you 
>a lateral move to head you off at the pass.
>
>The so-called “public meeting” was a Christ Church head of household (HOH) 
>meeting. Technically these meetings are not closed to the public, but then 
>Christ Church has never invited the public or the media to attend them 
>either. This particular meeting, however, was especially juicy because on 
>March 4, 2003, Doug Jones stood before the HOH and sold his soul to the 
>devil. That night he did not commit himself to a whole hill of lies; he 
>committed himself to an entire mountain range. However, instead of 
>documenting each falsehood, I will shorten this post and highlight only 
>one. This example should demonstrate Wilson’s & Jones’ resolve to hold 
>their seat of power.
>
>First, some background. In December 1993, the elders of Community 
>Evangelical Fellowship (CEF, now called Christ Church) tried to remove 
>Douglas Wilson from the ministry. To achieve this, they called a HOH 
>meeting where they intended to publicly rebuke him in front of the church. 
>(Please note that when the CEF elders caught Douglas Wilson pilfering money 
>from the church in 1992, they did not remove him. Rather, they kept it to 
>themselves and sternly warned him to keep his fingers out of the till.)
>
>Anyway, during the December 1993 HOH meeting the CEF elders failed to 
>remove Wilson — he dodged the bullet and remained in office. But he still 
>had one problem. The written record showed that his session of elders tried 
>to defrock him, and quite obviously such a record would impede his quest 
>for glory among men, forever and ever, amen. Therefore history had to be 
>revised, and that right soon.
>
>So for the first few weeks after the failed removal (otherwise known as the 
>coup), Wilson asked the elders to sign a letter that would clear him of the 
>matter. He even had the temerity to draft such a letter and set it before 
>them. Each time, however, without exception, the elders refused. But that 
>doesn’t matter. In Wilson’s mind a proposed letter is as good as an 
>endorsed letter.
>
>Jumping ahead ten years, the account of Wilson’s coup resurfaced in 2003, 
>and in the fullness of time the Christ Church elders designated the March 
>4, 2003, HOH meeting as the night for official revision. They appointed 
>Doug Jones their point man. And that night he shoveled a pile of manure 
>higher than Mt. Everest. It was so high that it would take Auntie E and a 
>fleet of Caterpillers three lifetimes to clear it. But since I promised 
>that I would park on only one lie, I must press forward.
>
>During the March 2003 HOH meeting, Doug Jones told Christ Church that in 
>December 1993 the four CEF elders signed the attached (pdf) letter. Jones 
>built his defense around it. He quoted it extensively. He named the men who 
>signed it. Never mind that the document bore no signatures. Concern for 
>such details is “litigious.” Never mind that he deliberately lied about 
>three good men, saying they signed a document which they flatly refused to 
>endorse. Only a “madman” would “read a conspiratorial significance into 
>those empty activities” (so says the Christ Church website). Never mind 
>that the Bible forbids lying. As Wilson or Jones wrote through Kyle the 
>Spinner, “i wish people would stop alluding to the bible all the time.” It 
>restricts their whizdumb.
>
>Why did Jones lie about the letter? — Because he had to discredit a man 
>whom Wilson targeted as an enemy. Remember that in Wilson’s world, there 
>are only two kinds of people: subjects and enemies. And all enemies must be 
>destroyed (witness “Hammer Time.”)
>
>Not yet satisfied with their fabrication, the Christ Church elders then 
>formed a “judicial committee” and picked three clever men to sit on it: 
>James Nance, full-time teacher at Logos School; Chris Schlect, full-time 
>whatever at NSA; and Doug Jones, full-time liar for Christ Church. And, 
>adding sin unto sin, the Christ Church Judicial Committee lied about this 
>letter no less than five times in writing. Aggravating their guilt, they 
>uploaded their lie to their website, and they kept it up for several 
>months. Worse yet, they kept the lie on the web even after they privately 
>admitted the letter was illegitimate. This means that, ironically, Jones 
>actually told the truth when he wrote, “We posted that explanation for 
>months.” Unfortunately, the posted explanation was a colossal lie.
>
>Since then, no Christ Church officer has ever confessed his sin to the 
>wronged parties, nor has any officer corrected the record at any of the 
>monthly HOH meetings. The Christ Church elders have all been too craven and 
>embarrassed to admit they lied through their worldwide teeth. And to this 
>day most kirkers still believe Jones’ fabrication. They don’t know any 
>better.
>
>Question for Douglas Wilson, Do you have no shame? No sense of decency? 
>“Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak 
>righteousness. Selah.” (Ps. 52:3.)
>
>Cordially,
>
>Captain Kirker
>
>
>
>>From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund@adelphia.net>
>>To: "'Art Deco aka W. Fox'" <deco@moscow.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
>>CC: <credenda@moscow.com>
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: Private [Says who]
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:46:21 -0800
>>
>>Visionaries,
>>
>>I'm cc'ing Mr. Jones so that if I misinterpret something he wrote 
>>privately,
>>he has the opportunity to correct my errors.
>>
>>I've written onlist before that any private nastygrams I receive in 
>>response
>>to V2020 posts I will free to post to V2020.  I think that sometimes 
>>people
>>respond privately when they have to no purpose other than to spew forth
>>vitriol in the hope of bullying those with whom they disagree into 
>>silence.
>>I disagree with that tactic, so I'll not participate in the silence
>>necessary for such tactics to succeed.
>>
>>I feel as though I'm in a bit of a quandary here.  It is true that Mr. 
>>Jones
>>responded to my questions privately (more on that in another paragraph).
>>And, it was a reasonably pleasant private response (he extended an
>>invitation to meet over a cup of coffee), if his response to my queries
>>wasn't particularly helpful.  Thus, I didn't feel it appropriate to post 
>>to
>>V2020.
>>
>>I will say, however, that based on Mr. Jones'  private email, I don't 
>>think
>>we here in V2020-land should hold our breaths awaiting meaningful public
>>participation from Mr. Jones anymore because my perception is that along
>>with his boss Doug Wilson, he no longer finds this forum worthwhile.  'Tis 
>>a
>>pity, really, because I for one have learned a great deal (and more than
>>just about Wilson World) from the individuals who make up this forum.
>>
>>In fairness, I do want to say that while I don't think Mr. Jones will
>>participate in meaningful dialogue on V2020, I think there are indications
>>that Wilson and Jones might respond to privately asked questions.  We've
>>seen some communication between Bill London and Doug Wilson (which Wilson
>>agreed to have shared with V2020 readers, although I remain confused why
>>Wilson doesn't write to V2020 directly in answer), and Doug Jones thinks 
>>he
>>answered my questions.
>>
>>My questions <sigh>.  Lest anyone think I'm withholding meaningful 
>>answers,
>>let me assure you that I'm *not*.  I don't know if Jones was just toying
>>with me or if he truly thinks he answered my questions in a helpful 
>>manner.
>>To recap, I asked the following questions in the following order:
>>[with respect to the Christ Church hierarchy's handling of the Morton 
>>Street
>>Casino/payoff/Lounge affairs and Jones' assertion of a public meeting to
>>explain Wilson World's handling of the thing]
>>1.  Can you provide more information about this public meeting?
>>2.  When & where was it held and how was it publicized?
>>3.  Did any news reporters attend?
>>[with respect to the removal of the explanation and alleged facts of the
>>affairs from Christ Church's web site]
>>4.  Am I correctly understanding that Christ Church's official explanation
>>has now been permanently removed?
>>[with respect to Jones' assertion that an unnamed pastor involved in
>>reviewing Christ Church's handling of the affairs thought the handling was
>>"brilliant"]
>>5.  And, what denominational group was that?
>>6.  Surely you're not referencing Wilson's CRE (Confederation of Reformed
>>Evangelicals)?
>>7.  If so, then isn't saying "One pastor who was part of a denominational
>>group reviewing our handling of this situation said it was a brilliant
>>solution," akin to having the fox watch the hen house???
>>8.  If not, why not?
>>
>>Mr. Jones' answers?
>>"yes, no, yes, no, and no"
>>Those are the answers I received privately in their entirety.
>>
>>They are answers to *some* of the questions, but they don't really provide
>>any information, do they?  Jones *could* tell us more about the alleged
>>public meeting, but he doesn't.
>>
>>I keep reflecting back on something Melynda Huskey wrote a week or two 
>>ago:
>>"Conflict theory teaches that two preconditions have to exist for 
>>conflict:
>>competing needs and interdependence. This fight is still simmering because
>>we aren't living together very well and we can't not live together. 
>>Neither
>>of those conditions is going to change by itself. . . And conflicts can 
>>only
>>be resolved if everybody is present in good faith, willing to listen, to 
>>be
>>flexible, to learn from each other. We may not have that good faith with 
>>one
>>another--we certainly don't have much trust."
>>(2/23/2004)
>>
>>I don't know how I/we can have that good faith (let alone trust) when one
>>side of this particular conflict has chosen of late to absent itself
>>generally speaking (there are a few exceptions I don't want to be accused 
>>of
>>not noticing or appreciating) from all but insults, pseudonyms, and wicked
>>parodies.  Mr. Wilson and his minions' voluntary absences except to hurl
>>insults, either publicly or privately, indicates to me that the upper
>>echelons of Christ Church/Wilson World is *not* present in good faith and
>>has no genuine interest in resolving the unrest in any way other than 
>>their
>>way.
>>
>>
>>
>>Saundra Lund
>>Moscow, ID
>>
>>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>>nothing.
>>-Edmund Burke
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On
>>Behalf Of Art Deco aka W. Fox
>>Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:52 PM
>>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: Private [Says who]
>>
>>
>>Private uninformative, insulting emails from Vision 2020 queries readings
>>will always be posted -- cowardice to deal in the marketplace of ideas is
>>not a pretty site.
>>
>>I think that we can conclude that Doug Jones lied about the public meeting
>>on the casino.
>>
>>It is also appears that Logos is ashamed or embarrassed about the contents
>>of the course "Biblical Femininity"
>>
>>If the below is an example of what to expect from the cult in response to 
>>a
>>simple request for facts, it appears that Rose's castrating wit has 
>>claimed
>>more victims then first thought.
>>
>>Wayne Fox
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Doug Jones" <credenda@moscow.com>
>>To: "'Art Deco aka W. Fox'" <deco@moscow.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:37 AM
>>Subject: Private
>>
>>
>> > Wayne,
>> >
>> > Can you remind me again, Wayne, why I should take time to care what you
>> > think? I'm quite happy to let you believe a whole hill of lies; it's 
>>fun
>> > to watch and an affordable loss. Don't listen to anything cultists like
>> > me say, Wayne; we'll only lead you astray.
>> >
>> > I responded to Saundra privately.
>> >
>> > Are you leading the good life yet, Wayne? If I saw you on the street
>> > would I think "there goes a person who loves life?" Do you do anything
>> > creative?
>> >
>> > Doug Jones
>
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><< NoSignatures.pdf >>

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