[Vision2020] Fwd: Fw: Kayak registration
Dan Carscallen
predator75@moscow.com
Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:39:27 -0800
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I agree that personal responsibility is the key, and I am not in favor
of charging for S&R necessarily. I believe that if people have to pay a
fee to do something (like your park n' ski and my ORV sticker), it
forces one to take a sort of responsibility.
=20
I agree that it is a slippery slope, and the "one percent-ers" screw it
up for the rest of us.
=20
DC
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Art Deco
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:29 AM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Fw: Kayak registration
Dan,
=20
I agree with that all users should be assessed fees for recreational
use. Those fees should be in some proportion to the cost of servicing
and repairing the damage to the resource being used.
=20
As a cross-country skier and snowshoer, I pay $20 annually for the Park
n' Ski program. As you know by our association with FOMM both my wife
and I have no problem with contributing to help defray costs to owners
who provide recreational access to their properties.
=20
The search and rescue program funding is a more complex issue. As I am
sure you know, the bulk of search and rescue missions are engendered by
careless ORV use. However, it can be argued that charging for a rescue
can cause some in need not to call and thus suffer.
=20
I agree that those users that intentionally go poorly prepared into high
risk areas should be assessed something. Cases that come to mind
include alpine skiers and snow-boarders that deliberately go out of
bounds and find themselves in trouble. What the assessment should be is
difficult to determine. Perhaps, there must be some balance between
personal responsibility and the states' police and protection duties.
=20
Wayne Fox
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dan <mailto:predator75@moscow.com> Carscallen=20
To: vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 7:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fwd: Fw: Kayak registration
I don't understand the problem. Why should some users of our natural
resources be required to pay a fee (off road motorized vehicle
registration, motor boats, snowmobiles, etc.) while others do not
(mountain bikes, kayaks, canoes, etc.)? You may think *you* have little
impact, but what about those who may not be quite as adept at
maneuvering a kayak, raft, or canoe who require assistance from a
Sheriff's dept. or search and rescue? Who pays for that? Those who buy
registrations, that's who.
=20
I'm all for this registration, and I'm also for registration of bicycles
and cross country skis to help alleviate the costs incurred in making
trails for them as well.
=20
Dan Carscallen
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]
On Behalf Of roger hayes
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:45 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Fwd: Fw: Kayak registration
Vision 2020 readers:
I forward the following information because I believe it to be crucial
to non-motorized recreational water users here in Idaho. Further, I
oppose the law as it will add layers of bur to the state and will
accomplish little. Our state legislature is attempting to require
registration and fee payment for non-motorized water craft. It is an
attempt to regulate use and collect a bit of revenue. However, in the
years I have been plying the lakes and rivers of Idaho, believe my
paddle boat has little impact on the water, facilities, and services
offered. Additionally, I see a great number of boats on Coeur d'Alene,
Pend Oreille, and Priest lakes with out of state registrations. Who pays
for that use? I feel canoes, and kayak enthusiasts should be encouraged
rather than taxed/penalized.
I encourage everyone to contact our representatives and senators and
provide them with a "nay' to this nonsense.
Sincerely,
Roger Hayes
Moscow
Hello, everyone. I thought I sent my own story on this
to you, but apparently it didn't reach you.
I work as a legislative reporter here in the Capitol.
I can't lobby on this bill, but I can tell you when it
comes up before committees so anyone who would like to
can testify.
Here's what I wrote and sent on the AP wires on Jan.
7:
^Small boat owners targeted for new fee<
=B6 COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho (AP) _ Every canoe, kayak and
raft over 7 feet long would have to be registered with
the state under a bill being proposed by the Kootenai
County Sheriff's Department.
=B6 The $13 registration fee would apply to any
non-motorized vessel, including out-of-state paddlers.
=B6 "They need to pay their own way," Kootenai County
Sheriff Rocky Watson said about non-motorized boaters.
"They are creating a need for services."
=B6 Watson said a most search-and-rescue efforts are
for whitewater rafters and kayakers who get in
trouble.
=B6 The bill is not sitting well with Idaho's river
outfitters and retailers.
=B6 Fran Tonsmeire, co-owner of Wilderness River
Outfitter in Challis, said her family-owned business
already pays enough user fees.
=B6 "We wouldn't like it. Its just another red tape
kind of thing, and we don't need any more regulations
or paperwork," she said.
=B6 Stan Kolby, co-owner of Idaho River Sports canoe
and kayak shop in Boise, said the proposed law is
misinformed about the sport.
=B6 Many new kayak boats are built under the 7-foot
length limit now, and shorter boats are often used in
the roughest water.
=B6 Also, dedicated paddlers often have multiple boats
for different water conditions. Paying fees for each
boat would have the effect of punishing people who are
taking measures to avoid search and rescue operations
by using the proper equipment.
=B6 And, Kolby says, his business would be forced to
pay more than $1,300 in fees just for the livery boats
he rents to customers.
=B6 "I understand search and rescue has to be funded.
Sometimes thing happen beyond our control. But there
must be other options or alternatives," he said.
=B6 Idaho currently requires motorboat and sailboat
owners to buy an annual registration, which costs $13
for boats up to 12 feet. An additional $2 per foot is
charged for longer boats.
=B6 The Idaho Parks and Recreation Department
estimates that there are more than 100,000
non-motorized boaters in Idaho.
=B6 Corby Christensen, the state's boating law
administrator, thinks it's time for paddlers to pay bureaucracy
their share.
=B6 "It would help enhance the sport and help correct
a lot of overcrowding problems we have," he said. Yet
Christensen said his department isn't taking sides on
the draft, just providing information.
=B6 Kootenai County Waterways Director Kurtis Robinson
sees the $13 charge more as a user fee than a
registration fee.
=B6 "I have two kayaks myself and I don't think it
would bother me," he said. "You have to pay if you are
going to play."
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D296173616-21012004>I agree that personal responsibility is the =
key, and I=20
am not in favor of charging for S&R necessarily. I believe =
that if=20
people have to pay a fee to do something (like your park n' ski and my =
ORV=20
sticker), it forces one to take a sort of =
responsibility.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D296173616-21012004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D296173616-21012004>I agree that it is a slippery slope, and the =
"one=20
percent-ers" screw it up for the rest of us.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D296173616-21012004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D296173616-21012004>DC</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] <B>On =
Behalf=20
Of </B>Art Deco<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:29=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[Vision2020]=20
Fwd: Fw: Kayak registration<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Dan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>I agree with that all users =
should be=20
assessed fees for recreational use. Those fees should be in some =
proportion to the cost of servicing and repairing the damage to the =
resource=20
being used.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>As a cross-country skier and =
snowshoer,=20
I pay $20 annually for the Park n' Ski program. As you know by =
our=20
association with FOMM both my wife and I have no problem with =
contributing to=20
help defray costs to owners who provide recreational access to their=20
properties.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>The search and rescue =
program funding is=20
a more complex issue. As I am sure you know, the bulk of search =
and=20
rescue missions are engendered by careless ORV use. However, it =
can be=20
argued that charging for a rescue can cause some in need not to call =
and thus=20
suffer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>I agree that those users =
that=20
intentionally go poorly prepared into high risk areas should be =
assessed=20
something. Cases that come to mind include alpine skiers and=20
snow-boarders that deliberately go out of bounds and find themselves =
in=20
trouble. What the assessment should be is difficult to =
determine. =20
Perhaps, there must be some balance between personal responsibility =
and the=20
states' police and protection duties.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Wayne Fox</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dpredator75@moscow.com =
href=3D"mailto:predator75@moscow.com">Dan=20
Carscallen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 21, =
2004 7:27=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] =
Fwd: Fw:=20
Kayak registration</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D437082115-21012004>I don't understand the problem. Why =
should=20
some users of our natural resources be required to pay a fee (off =
road=20
motorized vehicle registration, motor boats, snowmobiles, etc.) =
while others=20
do not (mountain bikes, kayaks, canoes, etc.)? You may think =
*you*=20
have little impact, but what about those who may not be quite as =
adept at=20
maneuvering a kayak, raft, or canoe who require assistance from a =
Sheriff's=20
dept. or search and rescue? Who pays for that? Those who =
buy=20
registrations, that's who.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D437082115-21012004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D437082115-21012004>I'm all for this registration, and I'm =
also for=20
registration of bicycles and cross country skis to help =
alleviate the=20
costs incurred in making trails for them as =
well.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D437082115-21012004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D437082115-21012004>Dan Carscallen</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>roger hayes<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 20, =
2004 6:45=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Vision2020]=20
Fwd: Fw: Kayak registration<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Vision 2020=20
readers:<BR><BR>I forward the following information because I =
believe it=20
to be crucial to non-motorized recreational water users here in =
Idaho.=20
Further, I oppose the law as it will add layers of bur to the =
state and=20
will accomplish little. Our state legislature is attempting to =
require=20
registration and fee payment for non-motorized water craft. It is =
an=20
attempt to regulate use and collect a bit of revenue. However, in =
the=20
years I have been plying the lakes and rivers of Idaho, believe my =
paddle=20
boat has little impact on the water, facilities, and services =
offered.=20
Additionally, I see a great number of boats on Coeur d'Alene, Pend =
Oreille, and Priest lakes with out of state registrations. Who =
pays for=20
that use? I feel canoes, and kayak enthusiasts should be =
encouraged rather=20
than taxed/penalized.<BR>I encourage everyone to contact our=20
representatives and senators and provide them with a "nay' to this =
nonsense.<BR>Sincerely,<BR><BR>Roger Hayes<BR>Moscow<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>Hello, everyone. I thought I sent my own story on=20
this<BR>to you, but apparently it didn't reach you.<BR><BR>I =
work as=20
a legislative reporter here in the Capitol.<BR>I can't lobby =
on this=20
bill, but I can tell you when it<BR>comes up before =
committees so=20
anyone who would like to<BR>can testify.<BR><BR>Here's what =
I wrote=20
and sent on the AP wires on =
Jan.<BR>7:<BR><BR><BR><?bigger>^Small=20
boat owners targeted for new fee<<?/bigger><BR><BR>=B6 =
COEUR=20
D'ALENE, Idaho (AP) _ Every canoe, kayak and<BR>raft over 7 =
feet=20
long would have to be registered with<BR>the state under a =
bill=20
being proposed by the Kootenai<BR>County Sheriff's =
Department.<BR>=B6=20
The $13 registration fee would apply to any<BR>non-motorized =
vessel,=20
including out-of-state paddlers.<BR>=B6 "They need to pay =
their own=20
way," Kootenai County<BR>Sheriff Rocky Watson said about=20
non-motorized boaters.<BR>"They are creating a need for=20
services."<BR>=B6 Watson said a most search-and-rescue =
efforts=20
are<BR>for whitewater rafters and kayakers who get=20
in<BR>trouble.<BR>=B6 The bill is not sitting well with =
Idaho's=20
river<BR>outfitters and retailers.<BR>=B6 Fran Tonsmeire, =
co-owner of=20
Wilderness River<BR>Outfitter in Challis, said her =
family-owned=20
business<BR>already pays enough user fees.<BR>=B6 "We =
wouldn't like=20
it. Its just another red tape<BR>kind of thing, and we don't =
need=20
any more regulations<BR>or paperwork," she said.<BR>=B6 Stan =
Kolby,=20
co-owner of Idaho River Sports canoe<BR>and kayak shop in =
Boise,=20
said the proposed law is<BR>misinformed about the =
sport.<BR>=B6 Many=20
new kayak boats are built under the 7-foot<BR>length limit =
now, and=20
shorter boats are often used in<BR>the roughest =
water.<BR>=B6 Also,=20
dedicated paddlers often have multiple boats<BR>for =
different water=20
conditions. Paying fees for each<BR>boat would have the =
effect of=20
punishing people who are<BR>taking measures to avoid search =
and=20
rescue operations<BR>by using the proper equipment.<BR>=B6 =
And, Kolby=20
says, his business would be forced to<BR>pay more than =
$1,300 in=20
fees just for the livery boats<BR>he rents to =
customers.<BR>=B6 "I=20
understand search and rescue has to be funded.<BR>Sometimes =
thing=20
happen beyond our control. But there<BR>must be other =
options or=20
alternatives," he said.<BR>=B6 Idaho currently requires =
motorboat and=20
sailboat<BR>owners to buy an annual registration, which =
costs=20
$13<BR>for boats up to 12 feet. An additional $2 per foot=20
is<BR>charged for longer boats.<BR>=B6 The Idaho Parks and =
Recreation=20
Department<BR>estimates that there are more than=20
100,000<BR>non-motorized boaters in Idaho.<BR>=B6 Corby =
Christensen,=20
the state's boating law<BR>administrator, thinks it's time =
for=20
paddlers to pay bureaucracy<BR>their share.<BR>=B6 "It would =
help=20
enhance the sport and help correct<BR>a lot of overcrowding =
problems=20
we have," he said. Yet<BR>Christensen said his department =
isn't=20
taking sides on<BR>the draft, just providing =
information.<BR>=B6=20
Kootenai County Waterways Director Kurtis Robinson<BR>sees =
the $13=20
charge more as a user fee than a<BR>registration fee.<BR>=B6 =
"I have=20
two kayaks myself and I don't think it<BR>would bother me," =
he said.=20
"You have to pay if you are<BR>going to=20
=
play."<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
LOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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