[Vision2020] A Liberal World

Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:28:19 -0800

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This is getting kind of strange.

It sounds like a few of you think rape is not a sexual act. This is a
different topic than a liberal world. How can rape not be sexual?

I know and agree that it is a violent act. I'm not disputing you here.

I'm wondering how you can think that it is not also a sexual act?

Ted wrote: ".I think it rather incredible someone could come to sanction
this act based on any logical principle involved in the belief that there is
nothing morally wrong with the simple sight of our bodies."

Perhaps you have forgotten the fact that 100 years ago folks would think it
incredible that women would want to wash their cars with their tops off or
that others would think a law against public nudity was foolish.

Also, on the same subject I remember when I was a boy that the goal of a
date with a young woman was to see if she would let you kiss her. We called
it "getting to first base." Now, it is not uncommon to assume that a steak
dinner warrants "sleeping with the girl."

I can't believe that you don't see that the social and sexual morals of our
country are not changing. The liberals seem to see this change as progress.
I see it as degradation and moral decline.

Maybe someone who agrees that this is progress can share how they come to
this conclusion.

Thanks for listening.

Mike Lawyer

  _____  

From: Aldoussoma@aol.com [mailto:Aldoussoma@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 5:28 PM
To: mike_l@moscow.com; vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Liberal World

Mike et. al. 

Your suggestion that there is a moral envelope being pushed that one day
might sanction nudity and the next day will, by some process of moral
degeneration, sanction rape, reveals perhaps more than you might intend
about the underlying emotions and psychology involved in your thinking.   

The sight of the human body is not an act of violence committed against
anyone, unless we employ a view of what our bodies mean to each other that
is rather dark and disturbing.   

Rape is an act of violence committed against another human, and I think it
rather incredible someone could come to sanction this act based on any
logical principle involved in the belief that there is nothing morally wrong
with the simple sight of our bodies. 

Do you think nudity to be some sort of act of violence on a continuum of
violent acts that lists further down the line rape as a worse act of
violence? 

Ted

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This is getting kind of =
strange.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

It sounds like a few of you think =
rape is
not a sexual act. This is a different topic than a liberal world. How =
can rape
not be sexual?<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

I know and agree that it is a =
violent act.
I&#8217;m not disputing you here.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I&#8217;m wondering how you can =
think that
it is not also a sexual act?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ted wrote: &#8220;&#8230;I think it =
rather
incredible someone could come to sanction this act based on any logical
principle involved in the belief that there is nothing morally wrong =
with the
simple sight of our bodies.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Perhaps you have forgotten the fact =
that
100 years ago folks would think it incredible that women would want to =
wash
their cars with their tops off or that others would think a law against =
public
nudity was foolish.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Also, on the same subject I =
remember when
I was a boy that the goal of a date with a young woman was to see if she =
would
let you kiss her. We called it &#8220;getting to first base.&#8221; Now, =
it is
not uncommon to assume that a steak dinner warrants &#8220;sleeping with =
the
girl.&#8221;<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

I can&#8217;t believe that you =
don&#8217;t
see that the social and sexual morals of our country are not changing. =
The
liberals seem to see this change as progress. I see it as degradation =
and moral
decline.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Maybe someone who agrees that this =
is
progress can share how they come to this =
conclusion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for =
listening.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mike Lawyer</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>=

</div>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
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<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
Aldoussoma@aol.com [mailto:Aldoussoma@aol.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
15, 2004
5:28 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> mike_l@moscow.com; =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">vision2020@moscow.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] =
A
Liberal World</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Mike et. al. 
 
Your suggestion that there is a moral envelope being pushed that one day =
might
sanction nudity and the next day will, by some process of moral =
degeneration,
sanction rape, reveals perhaps more than you might intend about the =
underlying
emotions and psychology involved in your thinking. &nbsp; 
 
The sight of the human body is not an act of violence committed against =
anyone,
unless we employ a view of what our bodies mean to each other that is =
rather
dark and disturbing. &nbsp; 
 
Rape is an act of violence committed against another human, and I think =
it
rather incredible someone could come to sanction this act based on any =
logical
principle involved in the belief that there is nothing morally wrong =
with the
simple sight of our bodies. 
 
Do you think nudity to be some sort of act of violence on a continuum of
violent acts that lists further down the line rape as a worse act of =
violence? 
 
Ted<o:p></o:p>

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