[Vision2020] Prejudgements and the Prejudging Judgers thatmakethem (was Chamber President and FirstBank)

Pat Kraut pkraut at moscow.com
Sat Aug 28 15:50:02 PDT 2004

Saundra: The problem with 'being out in the community' is that if you only
talk to those in your circle who are already like minded you only get the
same point of view. Suffice it to say that not everyone who was at the
meeting is in agreement with the uproar about the use of Lee. Ms White only
heard from one person who knew just who to call to get a lot of public
outcry just down the party line they wanted. But, I am hearing on this site
now and other places that not everyone at the meeting felt the same way. So,
once again Ms's White and Pall and some one Venon 2020 create a atmosphere
of distrust and hate without all the information.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
To: "'Dan Carscallen'" <predator75 at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:56 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Prejudgements and the Prejudging Judgers
thatmakethem (was Chamber President and FirstBank)

> Hi Dan,
> You wrote, in part:
> "I also know of the use of Robert E. Lee as an example of leadership in
> chamber retreat, since I've talked to folks who were there, and know why
> was used, and it's not what you think.  Maybe it was a mistake, maybe it
> the best thing at that time.  You don't know because you weren't there.
> Maybe it was a mistake, maybe not.  I guess it all depends on how freakin'
> sensitive you are to things.  Maybe I'm insensitive, or maybe I realize
> there aren't going to be slave auctions down at Friendship Square any time
> soon.  Nobody, and I mean NOBODY in Moscow would allow this place to
> a neoconfederate stronghold like most on V2020 seems to think it will.
> Maybe people need some "insensitivity training" so they don't fly off the
> handle at every little thing."
> Well, that does it for me.  I've not had much to say, but you've really
> my buttons with that.  Needless to say, I strongly disagree with you, Dan
> Sorry.
> IMHO, it was absolutely extremely poor judgment for Commissioner/Executive
> Chamber Director Kimmell to CHOOSE to use Robert E. Lee -- complete with
> Confederate flag -- as a leadership model for current Board members.  You
can be
> wishy-washy if you want, but this wasn't a Logos school assignment where
he was
> *told* who to use (although the material looks like a recycled Logos
report) --
> AFAIK, this was his very own free choice, and it was an extremely poor
> It's a choice he *is* responsible for.
> You want to make a big deal out of having talked with community members,
and I
> can do the same thing.  I, too, am out there in the community, and I
cannot tell
> you how many people are absolutely outraged (LOL -- even those who don't
> with me on lots of other things) -- yes, outrage is what it is -- that
> *chose* Lee for his presentation.  A phrase that's been thrown around
quite a
> bit recently by Christ Church and its supporters has been, "Have you no
> Well, I turn that right back around to Commissioner/Executive Director
> has *he* no shame???  How on earth could he, of all people, make the
choice in
> our community to highlight Lee as an example of wonderful leadership?
> This community, you see, has a *recent* history with the slavery issue,
> to a monograph (co-authored by none other than Kimmell's very own
> local "pastor") offering a Biblical defense of slavery and trying to
rewrite the
> history of slavery in this country.  Unlike some who want to offer a ready
> defense for the piece of hogwash, I've actually *read* the thing (complete
> "citation errors").  And, it really is most vile, not necessarily (IMHO)
> of the Biblical "defense" of slavery, but because of the absolute horror
> revisionism with respect to slavery in this country.
> That nasty little monograph, along with Wilson's continuing disingenuous
> of having a political agenda, seem to me to have been the flashpoints for
> "polarization" in our community.  The community has been slack-jawed many
> over the years by the anti-women, anti-choice, anti-human rights (to name
just a
> few) stance of the church hierarchy, and attempting to revise the history
> slavery in this country was the straw that seems to have broken the
> camel's back.
> Paul Kimmell is certainly very well aware of that *recent* community
> Yet, given that history, Kimmell *chose* Lee.  And, that's what I'd call
> extremely poor judgment and thoughtlessness -- at a minimum.
> It's certainly not rocket history to understand why the community is
> You may think this is a "little thing" for which some of us need
> training," but I strongly disagree, and to minimize the effect on a large
> of the community of such an offensive choice is just plain disrespectful,
> Furthermore, I believe the Chamber and the community is owed an apology
for such
> a thoughtlessness and (at best) ignorance.  Yes, Dan, there are Chamber
> (even board members -- how do you think the info saw the light of day?)
who were
> offended, in addition to many, many community members.
> If you want to argue some distinction between
> Kimmell-as-non-profit-Chamber-Executive-Director and
> Kimmell-as-elected-County-Commissioner, that's OK.  And, you can even
argue that
> Kimmell's presentation was to Chamber Board members and should have never
> made public, something I hear is getting much play amongst those circling
> wagons in defense of Kimmell.
> But, you can't un-ring the bell for Kimmell or for the Chamber:  the
> knows, and what Kimmell did as Executive Director for the Chamber not only
> offended Board & Chamber members, it justifiably *hurt* many members of
> community.
> It is simply unfathomable to me why an apology hasn't been forthcoming.
> frankly, it's bad business -- after all, Kimmell was representing local
> business.
> I certainly expect more from a business community that wants my business.
> But, hey -- that's me.  To each her/his own.  You can choose where to
spend your
> dollars, and I'll choose where to spend mine.
> I'll wind this up by quoting from an interesting little article by Joshua
> Michael Zeitz entitled "Rebel Redemption Redux" that was published in
Dissent in
> Winter 2001.  I highly recommend you read it:
> "In the winter of his life, the ex-slave and abolitionist Frederick
> took up arms in fierce rhetorical battle for the collective memory of the
> War.  "Death has no power to change moral qualities," he admonished a
> assembled in 1894 at Rochester's Mt. Hope Cemetery . . . "What was bad
> the war, and during the war, has not been made good since the war . . .
> else I may forget, I shall never forget the difference between those who
> for liberty and those who fought for slavery."  It was a theme he had been
> sounding for almost thirty years -- that national amnesia must not obscure
> crimes of the Confederacy, that the spirit of inter-sectional reunion must
> blot out the moral dimension of the Civil War, that "there was a right
side and
> a wrong side in the late war which no sentiment out to cause us to
> In Esteemed Memory of Frederick Douglass,
> Saundra Lund
> Moscow, ID
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
> -Edmund Burke
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