[Vision2020] Debbie Gray's Initial Comments

[Art Deco aka W. Fox]

Debbie, et al,

Debbie expresses frustration, concern, etc. that several regular posters to V
2020 are obsessed with Cult Master Douglas Wilson and some of his minions and
also that we are not constructive.

There have been many replies to Debbie's thoughtful post (which probably echoes
the sentiment of many others); I think some points need to be emphasized.

1.    I know many of the V 2020 posters that Debbie is critical of -- some
personally, others by proxy.  Perhaps, Debbie is unaware that almost all, if not
all, of these posters belong to at least one community service organization and
dedicate time and effort to community betterment.  Many of these posters also
contribute a substantial amount of money to a wide variety of local community
service organizations and causes.  Hence, the insinuation that we are a bunch of
malcontent, bitching negativists is not quite correct.

2.    Of the same group of posters:  All of us would probably love to see a
vital, commercially diverse, downtown Moscow.  However, we would like also to
see that all of these endeavors pay their fair share of taxes.  This is not
happening now.  Not only are some businesses tax-exempt in some way, including
the chamber of commerce, there appear to be some businesses that are cheating on
sales taxes, income taxes, property taxes, etc.  Perhaps as a result of Rose's
and Saundra's work some of these organizations will now be investigated much
more carefully.

3.    The beliefs of the Cult Master Wilson and his Christ Church Cult have
egregious behavioral consequences.  For example, young girls and women attached
to the cult in various ways will be led to believe that they are inferior in
several ways.  Besides being a false belief by observation, this belief cripples
female children and discourages them from full achievement; it is little more
than blatant child abuse.

Further, when a female child is so crippled, not only is she harmed, but all of
us are.  We are deprived of the full gamut of contributions to society she might
make.  Her future spouse is deprived of the many facets of knowledge and
experience she might contribute to the relationship when deservedly considered
an equal and encouraged to behave as same.

4.    Calling (even repeatedly) attention to a problem is not necessarily being
negative.  Progress is made by recognizing problems, defining and redefining
them, and searching for solutions.  Jack does not like the "venom" sometimes
found on V 2020 (he probably echoes the sentiments of many others also).  There
are several reasons for the venom, some are obvious, some not.  Sometimes the
venom discourages responses.  This probably not good.  However, a little bit of
reflection might show that venom can have several benefits also.  To those that
think "civil discourse" is the rule in most forums, I would point to the British
Houses of Lords and Commons as forums which are at least as uncivil as V 2020.
Forums on purely technical matters are sometimes completely civil; those on
religious, social, and political ones seldom are.  This is not always bad.

For example, Jon Kimberling and I have discussed and insulted each other both on
and off V 2020.  However, that we have called each other a number of
unflattering names does not mean we could not work together in person to solve a
current problem of some moment for the community and chamber.  It does not mean
that we do not agree on a wide variety of issues of concern to the community.  I
do not take most name calling and personal attacks seriously for very long.  I
do not think others do also.  As a critical thinker, I must also consider
whether some of the venom is justified in several different ways.  For example,
I do not think it too unruly to insult someone who condemns my rhetoric on
fiduciary trust matters but who takes as a partner someone who has participated
in a major way the largest breach of fiduciary trust in the recent history of
the State of Idaho and who thereby has severely and adversely impacted the
university and this community for years to come.

5.    Thomas Jefferson (I think) said:

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."

Debbie, while many of us could certainly improve our manners on V 2020 (although
such an improvement might lead to a decline in interest and entertainment
value), I think what you see with regard to the cult on V 2020 and elsewhere are
honest attempts to apply Jefferson's adage.

Respectfully,

Wayne

Art Deco  (Wayne Fox)
deco at moscow.com

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