[Vision2020] Opinion not normally seen on V2020

[Art Deco aka W. Fox]

Joan, et al,

Joan discusses the nuances:

With all due respect, I think this is a misreading of what Kerry actually said.
He was asked if, knowing what we now know about Iraq, WMDs, Al Qaeda, etc., he
would still have voted in favor of giving President Bush the authority to use
force.  Kerry said yes, he would have voted for that authority.

I'm sorry, Joan.

I see little difference no matter how Kerry's remarks are interpreted.

Giving Bush the power to use force is not the same as giving him the power to
threaten to use force.  With the latter, Bush may be  harmless, even a bit
effective.  With the latter, it has been a human suffering disaster of
formidable proportions and likely to remain that way for years to come, not to
mention the declining view of our country among almost every other country on
the planet our country has suffered, not to mention the host of other problems,
here and abroad, that the war money, effort, and attention could have been
focused on.

I had hoped that Kerry would have been a little more prudent, imaginative, and
caring in dealing with the problem that Iraq presented.

I am really disappointed with Kerry.  I will still vote for him over Bush.  I
may still give money towards his campaign but only because he now represents the
lesser of two evils and not a beacon of hope for a better way of dealing with
complex problems.

Wayne

Art Deco  (Wayne Fox)
deco at moscow.com





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joan Opyr
  To: Vision2020 Moscow
  Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Opinion not normally seen on V2020



  Wayne writes:

  If Kerry is using the tactic of his support for the Iraq War as a political
ruse, he is on risky ground.  His statement will certainly reduce the enthusiasm
of some or many of his supporters -- some my even vote for a third party
candidate.

  If he really believes that the human suffering and chaos wrought to Iraq is
justified without WMDs, Al Kada connections, etc., then I really must reassess
my opinion of his reasoning ability, integrity, and values.

  With all due respect, I think this is a misreading of what Kerry actually
said.  He was asked if, knowing what we now know about Iraq, WMDs, Al Qaeda,
etc., he would still have voted in favor of giving President Bush the authority
to use force.  Kerry said yes, he would have voted for that authority.  He also
said that he would not have used that authority as Bush has used it, i.e., Kerry
did not say that he would have invaded Iraq.  He did not say that he would
chosen a unilateral course of action.

  Perhaps this is overly nuanced for some; perhaps it seems too qualified and
too complex.  It looks to me like Kerry has consistently maintained that the
threat of force -- not necessarily the actual use of it -- was an appropriate
tool in our diplomatic arsenal.  He was asked this question repeatedly during
the Democratic primary debates and his answer never changed.  Saddam Hussein had
responded positively to threats of force in the past; when the first George Bush
amassed troops in the Persian Gulf, Hussein sent frantic messages through
various diplomatic channels saying that he would withdraw his troops from
Kuwait.  We refused to take yes for an answer; hence, the first Gulf War.  The
same again this time around.  Hussein pushed the envelope right up to the edge,
but after the Congress voted to authorize the use of force, Hussein announced
that the U. N. inspectors were welcome to come back.  Bush II chose instead to
invade.

  Nuanced or not, the threat of force is an effective weapon, but it is not the
same as the actual use of force.  Imagine I've drawn a line in the sand . . . at
the playground on Friendship Square.  I tell you that if you step over it, I'll
break your nose.  You know that I'm prepared to break your nose.  You see that
I've got on my boxing gloves.  You decide not to step over the line.  I don't
care -- I step over the line onto your side and break your nose anyway.  Who's
to blame?  Me, you, or the people who paid for my boxing gloves and gave me a
lift downtown?  We can argue about whether or not Kerry's vote to give this
particular tool to George W. Bush was wise or unwise, but we cannot argue that
he voted in favor of chaos and suffering in Iraq.  Congress was not given the
opportunity to vote on a formal Declaration of War.  They haven't been given
that opportunity in any U. S. military conflict since World War II.

  And perhaps that's the problem.  All of our Presidents post-FDR have felt free
to send soldiers into battle without Congressional oversight.

  Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment


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