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<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>Joan, et al,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>Joan discusses the nuances:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref">With all due respect, I think this is a misreading
of what Kerry actually said. He was asked if, knowing what
we now know about Iraq, WMDs, Al Qaeda, etc., he would still
have voted in favor of giving President Bush the authority to use
force. Kerry said yes, he would have voted for that
authority. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>I'm sorry, Joan.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>I see little difference no matter how
Kerry's remarks are interpreted.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>Giving Bush the <STRONG>power to use force
</STRONG>is not the same as giving him the <STRONG>power to threaten to use
force</STRONG>. With the latter, Bush may be harmless, even a
bit effective. With the latter, it has been a human suffering disaster of
formidable proportions and likely to remain that way for years to come, not to
mention the declining view of our country among almost every other country on
the planet our country has suffered, not to mention the host of other problems,
here and abroad, that the war money, effort, and attention could have been
focused on.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>I had hoped that Kerry would have been a
little more prudent, imaginative, and caring in dealing with the problem
that Iraq presented.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>I am really disappointed with Kerry.
I will still vote for him over Bush. I may still give money towards his
campaign but only because he now represents the lesser of two evils and not a
beacon of hope for a better way of dealing with complex
problems.</FONT></DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>
<DIV><BR>Wayne</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Art Deco (Wayne Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=auntiestablishment@hotmail.com
href="mailto:auntiestablishment@hotmail.com">Joan Opyr</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020 Moscow</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:26
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Opinion not
normally seen on V2020</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Wayne writes:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>If Kerry is using the tactic of
his support for the Iraq War as a political ruse, he is on risky
ground. His statement will certainly reduce the enthusiasm of some or
many of his supporters -- some my even vote for a third party
candidate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>If he really believes that the human
suffering and chaos wrought to Iraq is justified without WMDs, Al Kada
connections, etc., then I really must reassess my opinion of his reasoning
ability, integrity, and values.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4><FONT size=2>With all due respect, I
think this is a misreading of what Kerry actually said. He was
asked if, knowing what we now know about Iraq, WMDs, Al
Qaeda, etc., he would still have voted in favor of giving President
Bush the authority to use force. Kerry said yes, he would
have voted for that authority. He also said that he would not
have used that authority as Bush has used it, i.e., Kerry did
not say that he would have invaded Iraq. He did not say that he would
chosen a unilateral course of action. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4><FONT size=2>Perhaps this is overly
nuanced for some; perhaps it seems too qualified and too complex. It
looks to me like Kerry has consistently maintained that the threat of force --
not necessarily the actual use of it -- was an appropriate tool in our
diplomatic arsenal. He was asked this question repeatedly during the
Democratic primary debates and his answer never changed. Saddam Hussein
had responded positively to threats of force in the past; when the first
George Bush amassed troops in the Persian Gulf, Hussein sent frantic
messages through various diplomatic channels saying that he would
withdraw his troops from Kuwait. We refused to take yes for an answer;
hence, the first Gulf War. The same again this time around.
Hussein pushed the envelope right up to the edge, but after the
Congress voted to authorize the use of force, Hussein announced that
the U. N. inspectors were welcome to come back. Bush II chose instead to
invade.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4><FONT size=2>Nuanced or not, the
<STRONG>threat</STRONG> of force is an effective weapon, but it is not
the same as the actual <STRONG>use</STRONG> of force. Imagine I've drawn
a line in the sand . . . at the playground on Friendship Square. I tell
you that if you step over it, I'll break your nose. You know that I'm
prepared to break your nose. You see that I've got on my boxing
gloves. You decide not to step over the line. I don't care
-- I step over the line onto your side and break your nose
anyway. Who's to blame? Me, you, or the people who paid
for my boxing gloves and gave me a lift downtown? We can argue
about whether or not Kerry's vote to give this particular tool to George W.
Bush was wise or unwise, but we cannot argue that he voted in favor of
chaos and suffering in Iraq. Congress was not given the opportunity
to vote on a formal Declaration of War. They haven't been
given that opportunity in any U. S. military conflict since World
War II. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4><FONT size=2>And perhaps that's the
problem. All of our Presidents post-FDR have felt free to send
soldiers into battle without Congressional oversight.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4><FONT size=2>Joan Opyr/Auntie
Establishment </FONT></DIV></FONT><BR clear=all>
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