[Vision2020] Score one for the KKK!
Paul Duffau
pduffau@adelphia.net
Sun, 11 Apr 2004 06:28:33 -0700
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Good morning, Tom.
I did note that "respect" was a critical piece of AT&T Broadband's policy. If respect were indeed the key word and if they had stopped there, they probably would have been fine. However, they also charged their employees to "fully....value the differences among all of us" which goes beyond behavioral guidelines and begins a journey toward thought control. The fact that the man agreed to not discriminate or harass (I think the bare minimum that any individual should adhere to) is helpful to his case and harmful to the case of AT&T by demonstrating his willingness to avoid prohibited behaviors. That AT&T apparently did not seek a reasonable accommodation as required by law also hurt them.
As to your comment about a slightly homophobic smell: Are you referring to my post or to others? If it was mine, please specify were precisely I was homophobic. I would hate to think it is simply that someone is of a dissenting opinion as to the case at hand. That would be entirely too much like saying that a person who disagreed with our foreign policy carries a whiff of traitorous treachery about them. I would be surprised at such an argument from you.
Take Care,
Paul
At 05:59 AM 4/11/04 -0700, you wrote:
>The key word, ladies and gentlemen, is "respect", as in "respect the differences". AT&T in no way requires its employees to adopt (or even pay tribute to) the "differences of others".
>
>This place is developing a slightly homophobic smell.
>
>Take care,
>
>Tom "free to be you and me" Hansen
>Not On The Palouse, NOT EVER
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On Behalf Of Paul Duffau
>>Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:57 PM
>>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Score one for the KKK!
>>
>>Donovan,
>>
>>A few questions for you...
>>At 07:30 PM 4/10/04 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>>1) Why target Homosexuals? Why not Jews, they have different lifestyles that is objectionable to Christians? Or how about Rapists, or Pedophiles, or Murderers, or Thieves? He went right for Gay people directly. Would not his argument from his interpretation carry the same weight for Jews? If so, why not use that instead, I think you know the answer to that. It is more expectable to target gays and lesbians than Jews.
>>What lifestyle aspect of judaism would Christians find objectionable? Are the rapists, pedophiles, murderers, or thieves addressed in the Old Testament as well as the New? What about current law? What treatment do they receive in each?
>>
>>>2) Second, the company is not asking for acceptance of "behavior" just orientation. Lifestyle is not one specific behavior and can include and exclude certain behaviors and still be considered the same lifestyle.
>>Please explain how it is possible to be gay without a behavioral difference. Can an individual disagree with an orientation but still provide equality of service?
>>
>>
>>
>>>3) Third, if the man is a "Christian" because he follows "Christ", then let him show exactly when "Christ" spoke against, or denied Gays "respect and value."
>>Please indicate where the Christ spoke in favor of same.
>>
>>
>>
>>>4) If he was a Christian, why would he not gladly quit his job and let Christ take care of him instead of seeking earthly materialistic goods in return for his "Values". Even Judas gave the money back.
>>Because other, earthly alternatives are currently provided. Please explain the significance of the the Judas analogy - it's my slow day and I lost you in the wilderness.
>>
>>
>>
>>>5) Why would anyone want to work for a company that they do not agree with?
>>
>>
>>Why not - bills still need to be paid. Many people are enormously dissatisfied with their work or employer yet continue to stay at their current job. Should they forfeit their responsibilities to family and quit?
>>
>>
>>
>>>6) Why should a company have to keep employees that will not value the customer and just not discriminate against them. When I go into a store, I don't want to be just not discriminated against, I want to be a "valued customer". If a business does not value me then I will go someplace else. If this effect is multiplied, that business will face a loss, and go out of business. This is an unbearable burden for a business.
>>If the employee does not discriminate against you, how will you know that they do not value you? Are you psychic? Using personal experiences: 1) demonstrate how in your life you have provided discriminatory service to a person or group on the basis or in spite of disagreement with some aspect of their behavior; or 2) Please explain how you managed to provide said service despite your beliefs and why this individual could not emulate your example.
>>
>>>This is just a BS way of twisting words to stop gays and lesbians from achieving equality in workplace and marketplace. PERIOD.
>>
>>
>>Please expand on how words have been twisted in this case. Please define "equality in the workplace and marketplace". Along the same vein, please explain the KKK reference since I did not see it in the original article. (Not a defence of the KKK or any other racist entity!!!!!)
>>>Respectfully,
>>>
>>>Donovan J Arnold
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Equally Respectfully,
>>
>>Paul Duffau
>>
>>ps. I thought that I would ignore this thread as silly since the courts have presented a fait accompli (subject to review by higher courts) but it seems that someone is lonely and needs attention so I thought I might as well ask a few questions and maybe learn a few things as well as relieve some boredom.
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Good morning, Tom.<br>
<br>
I did note that "respect" was a critical piece of AT&T
Broadband's policy. If respect were indeed the key word and if they
had stopped there, they probably would have been fine. However,
they also charged their employees to "fully....value the differences
among all of us" which goes beyond behavioral guidelines and begins
a journey toward thought control. The fact that the man agreed to
not discriminate or harass (I think the bare minimum that any individual
should adhere to) is helpful to his case and harmful to the case of
AT&T by demonstrating his willingness to avoid prohibited
behaviors. That AT&T apparently did not seek a reasonable
accommodation as required by law also hurt them.<br>
<br>
As to your comment about a slightly homophobic smell: Are you referring
to my post or to others? If it was mine, please specify were
precisely I was homophobic. I would hate to think it is simply that
someone is of a dissenting opinion as to the case at hand. That
would be entirely too much like saying that a person who disagreed with
our foreign policy carries a whiff of traitorous treachery about
them. I would be surprised at such an argument from you.<br>
<br>
Take Care,<br>
<br>
Paul <br>
<br>
At 05:59 AM 4/11/04 -0700, you wrote:<br>
<font size=2 color="#0000FF"><blockquote type=cite cite>The key word,
ladies and gentlemen, is "respect", as in "respect the
differences". AT&T in no way requires its employees to
adopt (or even pay tribute to) the "differences of
others".</font><br>
<br>
<font size=2 color="#0000FF">This place is developing a slightly
homophobic smell.</font><br>
<br>
<font size=2 color="#0000FF">Take care,</font><br>
<br>
<font size=2 color="#0000FF">Tom "free to be you and me"
Hansen</font><br>
Not On The Palouse, NOT EVER<br>
<blockquote><font face="tahoma" size=2>
<dl>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> vision2020-admin@moscow.com
[<a href="mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com%5DOn" eudora="autourl">mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]</a><a href="mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com%5DOn" eudora="autourl">On</a>
Behalf Of </b>Paul Duffau
<dd>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:57 PM
<dd>To:</b> vision2020@moscow.com
<dd>Subject:</b> RE: [Vision2020] Score one for the KKK!<br>
<br>
</font>
<dd>Donovan,<br>
<br>
<dd>A few questions for you...
<dd>At 07:30 PM 4/10/04 -0700, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>1) Why target Homosexuals? Why not Jews, they have different
lifestyles that is objectionable to Christians? Or how about Rapists, or
Pedophiles, or Murderers, or Thieves? He went right for Gay people
directly. Would not his argument from his interpretation carry the same
weight for Jews? If so, why not use that instead, I think you know the
answer to that. It is more expectable to target gays and lesbians than
Jews.</blockquote>
<dd>What lifestyle</b> </i>aspect of judaism would Christians find
objectionable? Are the rapists, pedophiles, murderers, or
thieves addressed in the Old Testament as well as the New? What
about current law? What treatment do they receive in each?
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>2) Second, the company is not asking for acceptance of
"behavior" just orientation. Lifestyle is not one specific
behavior and can include and exclude certain behaviors and still be
considered the same lifestyle.</blockquote>
<dd>Please explain how it is possible to be gay without a behavioral
difference. Can an individual disagree with an orientation but
still provide equality of service?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>3) Third, if the man is a "Christian" because he follows
"Christ", then let him show exactly when "Christ"
spoke against, or denied Gays "respect and
value."</blockquote>
<dd>Please indicate where the Christ spoke in favor of same.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>4) If he was a Christian, why would he not gladly quit his job and
let Christ take care of him instead of seeking earthly materialistic
goods in return for his "Values". Even Judas gave the money
back.</blockquote>
<dd>Because other, earthly alternatives are currently provided.
Please explain the significance of the the Judas analogy - it's my slow
day and I lost you in the wilderness.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>5) Why would anyone want to work for a company that they do not agree
with?</blockquote><br>
<br>
<dd>Why not - bills still need to be paid. Many people are
enormously dissatisfied with their work or employer yet continue to stay
at their current job. Should they forfeit their responsibilities to
family and quit?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>6) Why should a company have to keep employees that will not value
the customer and just not discriminate against them. When I go into a
store, I don't want to be just not discriminated against, I want to be a
"valued customer". If a business does not value me then I will
go someplace else. If this effect is multiplied, that business will face
a loss, and go out of business. This is an unbearable burden for a
business.</blockquote>
<dd>If the employee does not discriminate against you, how will you know
that they do not value you? Are you psychic? Using personal
experiences: 1) demonstrate how in your life you have provided
discriminatory service to a person or group on the basis or in spite of
disagreement with some aspect of their behavior; or 2) Please
explain how you managed to provide said service despite your beliefs and
why this individual could not emulate your example.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>This is just a BS way of twisting words to stop gays and lesbians
from achieving equality in workplace and marketplace.
PERIOD.</blockquote><br>
<br>
<dd>Please expand on how words have been twisted in this case.
Please define "equality in the workplace and
marketplace". Along the same vein, please explain the KKK
reference since I did not see it in the original article. (Not a defence
of the KKK or any other racist entity!!!!!)<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>Respectfully,<br>
<br>
<dd>Donovan J Arnold</blockquote><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<dd>Equally Respectfully,<br>
<br>
<dd>Paul Duffau<br>
<br>
<dd>ps. I thought that I would ignore this thread as silly since
the courts have presented a fait accompli (</i>subject to review by
higher courts) but it seems that someone is lonely and needs attention so
I thought I might as well ask a few questions and maybe learn a few
things as well as relieve some boredom.
</dl></blockquote></html>
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